Q&A: The Firmament in the Book of Genesis
The Firmament in the Book of Genesis
Question
Hello. Lately I’ve been bothered by the question of what the Torah means when it says that the firmament separates between the waters below the firmament and the waters above the firmament. Until now I assumed this was one of the secrets of the Creation passage that we simply do not understand. But compared to the description of what was created on the other days—where there is a very clear plain meaning and there is no need to resort to hidden secrets—it is very hard to say that specifically here there is only some hidden mystery. And what bothers me is that it looks a bit like a primitive understanding that the blue of the sky is actually water.
It also seems implied somewhat in the description in Noah’s portion, where “the springs of the great deep burst forth”… and maybe one could explain that away, but because of what I mentioned from Genesis, it already seems suspicious to me.
Answer
First, I do not think that the rest of the description has such a simple plain meaning as you describe. At the very least, matching it to the facts known to us from science is not simple.
As for the waters above, you may be surprised, but there actually is an enormous quantity of water above. You can read about this in Nathan Aviezer’s book, In the Beginning. See here the relevant passage:
https://rationalbelief.org.il/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%90-%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A4-%D7%90%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A2%D7%96%D7%A8-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%90%D7%94/
Discussion on Answer
Anything is possible. I do not see a way to decide.
It could also be explained that the firmament is the layer separating the water on the ground (seas and rivers) and the water in the clouds (rain clouds).
Oren, that does not sound like the plain meaning of the verse. According to the plain meaning, the firmament is some kind of crust that separates water from water.
Look at the verses:
And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate between waters and waters.” And God made the firmament, and separated between the waters that were below the firmament and the waters that were above the firmament; and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Rabbi Michi has an article exactly on this topic:
https://www.knowingfaith.co.il/%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%A2/%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%94-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%9D-%D7%9B%D7%93%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%A5-%D7%A2%D7%92%D7%95%D7%9C
To Rabbi Michi: I read the passage the rabbi referred to. Thank you!
But I wanted to ask about what the rabbi wrote afterward [in response], that it is also possible to say that the Torah spoke in human language and did not state the truth about creation. I wanted to ask: seemingly, it is really hard to say that the Torah stated incorrect data. Could it not have avoided that and still written in the language people used back then? I’m asking because until now, when I saw answers of this kind, they seemed to me like evasions, and maybe stubbornness too.
This is not about saying something untrue. It is about giving a simple and schematic description for the readers’ benefit, one that is sufficient for the Torah’s purpose. In Genesis they describe six stages, each one a “day,” and in each one the inanimate, vegetation, animals, and man are created. This is a description that can express the hierarchical relationship, and for the Torah’s purposes that is enough. It does not need to go into all the details of the scientific description.
With God’s help, 5 Av 5779
The heaven is the layer of air above the earth in which the “birds of the sky” fly. The upper part of the air layer, where the clouds drift, is called the “firmament of heaven,” and it separates the upper waters in the clouds from the waters on the earth (and it too is called “heaven,” as it is written, “And God called the firmament Heaven.” Perhaps this is also what is called “the heaven of heavens.”
It appears from the verses that on the second day the atmosphere was created, the layer of air that separates the waters in the clouds from the waters on the earth, and on the third day the layer of water was gathered into the seas, the dry land appeared, and the existence of plants became possible.
The next required stage is the thinning of the cloud layer in the upper part of the atmosphere (which, as mentioned, is called the “firmament of heaven”), so that the light of the luminaries, the sun and the moon, would be seen “in the firmament of heaven” and make possible the process of photosynthesis, which is essential for the existence and growth of plants (and on the fifth and sixth days the animals were created, making possible the maintenance of the balance between oxygen and carbon dioxide in nature, a balance essential for plant and animal life.)
The process of creation described in Scripture in schematic form reflects a progressive development from the simple to the more complex: from the inanimate to vegetation, from vegetation to the moving things (the luminaries), from the moving things to living creatures, and from living creatures to man—a world growing and becoming perfected.
Not for nothing is the “Account of Creation” considered (like the “Account of the Chariot”) one of the “secrets of the Torah,” whose depth we are only beginning to grasp over time and with the development of scientific knowledge.
Best regards,
Shatz
It is worth noting that the description of creation in the book of Genesis is a revolution in the “cosmology” of the ancient world. The sun and the moon, which were considered the pinnacle of created beings to the point that they attained divine status, are reduced in the Torah’s description of creation to mere “lamps,” whose status lies between vegetation and animal life….
I don’t know if I’m already overdoing it on this issue. But I just wanted to comment [on what Shatz wrote] that I didn’t really understand. That is, the atmosphere extends far above the clouds as well. So it is not clear why one should call “firmament” only what is below the clouds, when there is nothing substantial separating them. Also, there are high places [buildings, mountains] that reach the clouds, so seemingly it is a bit difficult to call that “the waters above the firmament” when there are places on earth that reach there. It should also be noted that rain does not evaporate to a fixed location; rather [as I understand it] it reaches the inversion layer (a place where the temperature reverses, which is not fixed but changes according to several weather conditions), and therefore according to this it is not clear what exactly is called the firmament within the whole atmosphere. If I am mistaken about the facts, I would be happy to be corrected.
First of all, from the standpoint of logic, there are many difficulties with the way the text is currently written. For example, if originally it had said, “In the beginning God created the waters and the earth” (and not “the heavens and the earth”), several things would make sense: only on the second day did God call the firmament “heaven.” Also, where were the waters of “and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters” created? But of course we do not settle things from our armchairs based on my logic or anyone else’s.
In any case, even if the text can be made to work, that still does not indicate its scientific correctness. And again we return to the issue of magic. Whoever understood and knew about the creation of the world would necessarily have had to know science at least as it is today, and according to reason that simply could not have happened. Only someone who believes in magic can believe that there was ever anyone who possessed scientific knowledge without mathematical language and scientific instruments and experiments. And one who believes in magic denies the Torah of Moses our Teacher.
It is enough to mention that ancient technology—even in terms of the way the Torah itself was written (they did not even know how to invent simple ink and simple paper)—indicates a clear lack of scientific knowledge. Therefore it is obvious that Moses our Teacher did not know about the creation of the world. Simply because he had no way of knowing. And the question remains: what, then, is the point of the Creation story?
(And even from the Torah, when it hints at the ultimate knowledge that Jacob our Patriarch and Moses our Teacher attained in the biology of plant and animal life, we can see today that this was very limited knowledge, at best.)
Rabbi Michi,
What do you think of the following possibilities:
If we assume that God is the one who dictated the Creation story to Moses, one could say that this is a description of the creation of the world according to the concepts that were current in the ancient period. After all, God did not come to teach the Jews science in the Torah, and therefore one could say that “the Torah speaks in human language,” and God told the story of creation in terms they could understand.
Another possibility: God did not write the Creation account at all, but rather this is an ancient prophetic poem that was incorporated into Scripture, and therefore the question never really gets off the ground, because God did not write it.