Q&A: In the Case of Ashiyan's Doubt
In the Case of Ashiyan's Doubt
Question
Rabbi Michi, may he live long and well,
If I'm not imposing, I'd like to ask:
Berakhot 14a: "Ashiyan, the tanna from Rabbi Ami's academy, asked Rabbi Ami: One who is observing a fast, what is the law regarding tasting? Did he undertake only eating and drinking, and that is not present here, or perhaps he undertook pleasure, and that is present here?"
Is this doubt specifically about a fast day (and maybe in blessings as well), where eating and drinking are one thing and pleasure is another,
or does it apply to all eating prohibitions in the Torah, and then is it related to the dispute between Rabbi Yohanan and Reish Lakish—whether the benefit is that of the throat or the intestines?
Thank you very much.
I also wanted to ask forgiveness. In one of the discussions in the responsa section here, regarding your style and approach, I wrote that you do not conduct yourself properly in terms of interpersonal conduct, and I retract that.
I ask your forgiveness, and if you can, please delete my comments there.
It's here – https://mikyab.net/posts/dwqa-answer/%d7%aa%d7%a9%d7%95%d7%91%d7%94-%d7%9c%d7%91%d7%99%d7%aa-%d7%9e%d7%93%d7%a8%d7%a9-%d7%90%d7%a4%d7%99%d7%a7%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%a1-%d7%9c%d7%a9%d7%9e%d7%94-%d7%91%d7%a0%d7%a9%d7%99%d7%90%d7%95
Answer
With ordinary eating prohibitions, what is forbidden is the enjoyment of eating—especially according to Maimonides, in Rabbi Abbahu's view in tractate Pesachim, that the prohibition of eating is essentially a prohibition on deriving eating-benefit. Therefore it seems that tasting is forbidden by Torah law, at least under the rule of less than the minimum measure, even though one is not punished for it. However, at first glance this seems to involve neither benefit to the throat nor benefit to the intestines, and perhaps in such a case it is considered benefit to the throat (the tongue is included in the throat). But all this is in the case of tasting and spitting out; if one tastes and swallows, it would seem that the rule of less than the minimum measure applies through the ordinary benefit to the throat and intestines.
The matter is lengthy and complicated; see a survey here:
https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94_%D7%AA%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99%D7%AA:%D7%98%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%9E
You are completely forgiven and absolved, and if you wish you are welcome to point out the criticisms. In my view, if a person feels that way, it is proper for him to express it and for it also to appear on the site. Every reader will judge and form his own opinion.
If you still want me to, I will delete them.
Thank you. I'm not sure those are actually Maimonides' words, but I don't know the passage well. In any case, even according to that, it is clear that the doubt about tasting does not apply to prohibitions, even in a case of tasting and spitting out, since there is palate pleasure.
Many thanks also for the forgiveness.
Since you invited comments, I would say that a bit more patience and forbearance is needed with questions.
Aside from the value-based plane, which is what really matters, there is also a practical side here: people committed to Torah and the commandments find it hard to accept great people if they don't appear good in interpersonal conduct, unless they are from another world, like Tzafnat Pa'neach and perhaps the Sha'agat Aryeh. Sometimes that is דווקא impressive, but in my humble opinion, with people on the scale of the Rabbi—sorry for the flattery—whom it is very easy to appreciate (and perhaps, Heaven forbid, even admire, out of a certain lack of understanding), kind behavior has a positive effect.
A thorn among the trees of the forest has come to teach its cedars…