I think that maybe from a halakhic standpoint there is no room for demonization. But when people wag their finger at those who leave the country, it usually doesn’t come from claiming that this is a straightforward/plain violation of Jewish law. Rather, it’s either because of a view that part of the process of redemption depends on settling the Land of Israel (classic Religious Zionism, not necessarily Har Hamor and the like. Someone who already lives abroad is then not seen as quite so terrible, although it would still be preferable for him to immigrate to Israel. But someone who lives here and leaves is supposedly expressing a retreat from a classic Religious Zionist position). Or it comes from a classic secular-national stance that those who leave are “a collapse of weaklings” who “abandon the people” for a more comfortable life. The question is what reasons the environment has for demonizing them. And I assume most of them do it for one of the two reasons I mentioned, not out of study of a “dry” halakhic dispute about the commandment of settling the Land of Israel.

Immigrate to Israel*

That appendix reinforced my decision to leave the country (an obvious conclusion for someone who doesn’t think nationalism is a value and has no special desire to live among people like himself).

In response to Rational (Relatively) — did you read the appendix in question?

If you’re a person who is careful to observe Jewish law, how exactly did you find permission to leave the Land of Israel just like that? (That is, without a reason.) What does it have to do with the question of whether nationalism is a value? We’re talking about explicit laws.

I haven’t (yet) read the appendix, but in my opinion it is simple and obvious that every responsible person living in the state of the Jews should provide for himself a more or less readily available option of moving to another country if the security and/or social and/or economic problems become too burdensome. And if he neglects that insurance policy for himself, then he certainly has to provide it for his children. That means saving enough money, trying to acquire an internationally useful profession, and knowing a foreign language. It’s hard for me to understand people who put all their eggs in one dubious Middle Eastern basket in the name of stale national romanticism. At the moment the situation in the Holy Land is fairly good, but it’s easy to see how things here could go badly wrong in the coming decades, and one has to be prepared for that.

What does the fact that there should be a Plan B have to do with this (assuming there should be one — I’m not sure there really should be), as opposed to someone nowadays leaving the Land of Israel despite the laws that say to remain in the land?

I’m not familiar with those laws, and from the little I skimmed there is plenty of room to chip away at these mountains. And I also assume that in a case of need there will be a solution; great and worthy people have left for all kinds of reasons and with all kinds of explanations. In any case, first a person decides what he himself would do, and only afterward comes Jewish law.

Tolginus

No one is living on stale national romanticism. It’s just that you’re still living in a movie, thinking that somewhere else in the world you’ll be safer. There were six million people who thought like you, and their ashes are flying in the wind across Europe (forgive me for the harsh image). The Jewish inhabitants of this land are the descendants of people who woke up from that illusion sooner or later. The moment everyone acts like you and leaves the land for Australia, Canada, or the USA, you’ll see Nazi antisemitism come back to life there. It’s beyond me how you don’t understand that on your own.

The Jewish inhabitants of this land are descendants of those who knew when the ground was starting to shake and it was time to migrate onward. And if I think antisemitism endangers my life in a certain country, then I’ll flee early to another country. In any case, I tend to assume that in practice you too have a fairly convenient option to emigrate if you want to, and if you didn’t have one, you’d make sure to get one.

No. The Jewish inhabitants of this land are descendants of those who understood that it was no longer possible to keep running away like cowardly, pathetic little Jews, but that one had to fight. Therefore they “fled” to a forgotten land of desert and desolation in order to live proud national lives. That is, they understood that one has to fight, and in order to fight one has to unite (which is not necessary in order to run away). Meanwhile this approach has proven fruitful, and the number of people killed in all of Israel’s wars is smaller than an average pogrom from the world before the State of Israel. I won’t run away because I know this and I have no faith in the gentiles. In general and a priori I wouldn’t have had faith in Jews either, except that I choose to have faith because this enterprise has proven itself.

Indeed. But I prefer not to risk and/or waste my life on wars and struggles if there is another option. I’m truly grateful to those who fought and acted and did (and I make my modest contribution through the army, taxes, etc.), but to sacrifice significant chunks of life for struggles? That’s too much for me. Personally I’m fairly pessimistic about the security/social/economic situation that will be here, and despite all the advantages I find in living here, it may very well be that the day will come when I flee. To some extent I’m happy that I’m a coward (and by the way, I recommend that you also develop a bit of healthy cowardice).

Don’t worry. I’m a bigger coward than you. In fact, my whole approach itself stems from fear. I’m afraid of turning out to be a fool, someone who doesn’t learn from history. But you’re not listening to me when I tell you that you won’t achieve any of what you want by running away. You have to learn something from the past. And that is that you can’t rely on other human beings. The security situation won’t be better anywhere. In the US a civil war will break out someday. In Europe too, their immigration-welcoming approach will blow up in their faces. And I assume you won’t want to flee to the non-Western world (will it be better for you to flee to South America, or Iran, or China, or Polynesia?). That leaves only Australia and Canada. But don’t worry — plenty of Jews here have already thought of that trick. And once they absorb all those annoying, opinionated Jews, their antisemitic nerve will flare up too.