I have to say that I am really shocked by the things. To be so impressed by a collection of recycled and inferior arguments that every Haredi speaker says in exactly the same way and to see it as an extraordinary and convincing discourse is really strange. Maybe because he spoke in a hypnotic way, you are still under the influence. It is really embarrassing to address such childish and evil arguments. Nevertheless, I decided to address it, but I need more introduction.
It's hard for me to decide whether the way you addressed me and dictated how I should answer you and the implicit accusation of ad hominem stems from impudence or stupidity. As with the ultra-Orthodox arguments like the ones you cited (I've already touched on the quality of ultra-Orthodox arguments on this subject and in general in several columns), it's very hard to decide whether it's malice or stupidity, or maybe both. Or maybe it's just brainwashing and living in a bubble (babies who were taken). I judge you rightly that you're under hypnosis.
Now you are probably saying to yourself, here he is repeating his ad hominem, making arguments for the person and not for the matter. So here is the first lesson on ad hominem. An ad hominem argument is an argument that relies on irrelevant characteristics of the person making the argument in order to reject the argument. If Reuben says X and I say that Reuben is evil or an idiot or a woman or a Gentile and thus reject X, that is an ad hominem argument (although, the claim that he is stupid is not entirely ad hominem). But if I make arguments that show why X is not true, and conclude by saying that the arguer is evil or stupid, that is not really ad hominem. That is the conclusion of the discussion: whoever makes such a stupid/evil argument is stupid/evil. I do not remember a time when I referred to something with ad hominem arguments. I certainly refer to people and groups, but their characteristics are presented as a conclusion from arguments and not as arguments themselves.
Beyond that, I would be happy if you could point to an example in which the ad hominem and my hatred obscure the clarity of the answer itself. I usually formulate it quite clearly. Even if I attack someone, I don't think it affects the clarity of the arguments and the formulation. But I would be happy to see examples in this regard as well, unless this accusation also stems from the aforementioned hypnosis.
So that I do not suspect the Honorable of an ad hominem fallacy, I have nevertheless chosen to address these ridiculous arguments. I will do so in stages. In the first stage, I ignore the question of spoilage and deal with the scholars and the outrageous claim (and I express myself very gently) that there is no situation of "Pikon" here.
Let's start with the slogan of Torah Magna and Matzala. In most cases, it is taken out of context (I have emphasized this more than once here on the site). But beyond that, even the Haredim themselves do not really believe in it. Are they content with studying Torah instead of going to the doctor or in any other emergency? Wouldn't they leave the kollel to take their son who is running a fever to the doctor? Would they deepen their studies or try to call the police or run away when a thief/murderer enters their home? If so, then I have a new suggestion, instead of a law coming from the underground: Instead of killing the thief, go back and study and everything will be fine. And spare me the nonsense of 'effort', which I have also emphasized here more than once (you can search the site). No one really believes in it. But even if they do, it is irrelevant to the discussion: if one has to make an effort, then one makes an effort in all areas, even when it is inconvenient (one does not leave the kollel for a doctor). And if study is a substitute that makes effort unnecessary, then one should do so in all areas (do not go to the doctor).
I will just point out that learning can protect us even if every Abrech studied his entire life except for a year and a half of service, as with the Hesder soldiers. After all, at any given moment there are thousands of learners who would protect us, even if they were all enlisted for a period of service. So why is it relevant that Torah magna and mitzvah?
What is more, it is generally agreed that a certain number of Torah students can be exempted from military service. But they must be screened to be serious students, who will persist in this their entire lives (and not just during their years of military service. For some reason, only then does the Torah magna and mitzvah apply), and also in between times. The wholesale exemption currently granted to anyone enrolled in a yeshiva or kollel is not an exemption for Torah students, but for idlers and liars.
The argument about why they don't recruit Seder soldiers in the first years or senior citizens or extend the service to ten years instead of three is a truly evil argument. I didn't see that yeshiva students canceled the interregnum to protect us in the last war. After all, we all remember that it is the Torah that protects, right?
In general, a society cannot exist if it is all enlisted for military service. There is also a state and an economy to maintain, otherwise how many Haredim will be able to extort money?! That is why they established a three-year service and the rest of the people go about their business unless there is an emergency like war and they recruit reservists. This is another indication that the Haredi mindset has not passed the age of four, and they are unable to understand the difference between running an army and a state and the questions of the Pikn on the level of individual people. A state distributes tasks among its citizens in such a way that it can exist on all levels (that is why money is invested in culture and kollels, even when the state is in danger and when there is not enough budget to save all the sick). By the way, among the Haredi, no one asked them to enlist for life. To serve for a year and a half. They do not want to give even a day, and for this, the Hesder soldiers should not study even a day. Does that sound reasonable to you? The formulation that mocks the respected Hesder rabbis that they should be honored and enlist in Shiur A-B with them is simply delusional and evil. They should stop their Torah (remembering Magna and Mitzla), and not study even one day, so that the Haredi can not serve even one day. Why shouldn't the Haredi enlist for one year, and then study the rest of their lives. That would free the Hesder students to study in their Shiur A. It does not sound More likely? Without this year's Torah in the life of every Abrecht, we would collapse and not be saved? Has your eloquent one ever heard of the expression "decorate yourself," or did they not reach that in their kollel?
As for the claim that it is not a Piko'n. Consider two people who live in a certain house, and now someone comes and threatens to kill them both. It is known that if one of them goes out and fights against him, he will win but die. If both go out, then perhaps one of them will die and perhaps both will be saved. Reuven knows that Shimon will go out in any case, and therefore says to himself, there is no Piko'n here, since Reuven will win even on his own. And in general, going out and helping Reuven is dangerous, because I might pay with my life. Would you accept such an argument? Leave aside for now the implications and whether it is similar to the one discussed by Didan or not. In the meantime, tell me whether you would accept the argument. Note that of course Reuven is talking about his Piko'n. The fact that Reuven will die (to protect him too) does not bother him at all. Do you think he is right that it is not a situation of "Pikon"? Is the argument that it is dangerous relevant to evade his duty to bear the burden? When thousands of soldiers die in a war, is it not "Pikon"? Why, because the state (and the parasitic Haredim within it) remains alive? Who would dare to say "Dadam Didach Somek Tefi"?! To clarify, if this were true, then every secular or religious person should or could also evade conscription for the same reason.
Now I will ask about a situation where Reuven can study Torah instead of going out to help. Does it sound reasonable to you that he would tell Shimon to go out and I will study Torah? What's more, there are also Shimon-Yam (Datal) who want to study just like him. So why should he sit down and study? Let him enlist and you be the one to sit down and study.
Beyond that, I have explained more than once that the childish Haredi mindset does not understand what it means to run a country and have an army defend it. They think of this situation like the problem of a three-person kollel-sitting Pikun. What is the problem? Right now everything is fine, if a Pikun situation arises then we will abandon everything and enlist. But at the level of a country it will already be too late. When the situation arises where all of our lives are in danger, then we will decide to enlist, we will convince all the sages from Beit Shemesh that this is indeed the case, and then we will train everyone. And all of this will be done when the enemies are on the fences and our situation is critical. Is this how you think about running a country and an army? Is there anyone over the age of four who takes this way of thinking seriously? So why don't we all just stay home, not just the Haredim, and when the enemies come, they will call us. Just like in the Bible, when the enemies come, they recruit all the guys to fight.
Now comes the question of the fear of spoilage. I will address this briefly, because I have already answered this several times here on the site. First, the spoilage of those who enlist in many cases (in my opinion in most cases) is not created in the army. They already enter there spoiled. An unspoiled Haredi does not make it to the army. Therefore, this myth that the army spoils is greatly exaggerated. Go out and see what happens to the students of the Rabbi Center who enlist on their own (not in the framework of a Beinish) in the army for a short service. How many of them spoil? Compared to how many Haredi who spoil? Why is there such a difference? Because the army only brings out of the force what already exists inside. If you educate for service as a calling, you can prevent the spoilage.
Furthermore, work and academic studies also spoil (we won't go into the intensity and scope of the spoilage right now. The question is fundamental). Go out and see what happens to those who leave the kollel, who is more and who is less. So why is it allowed there? Because you have to make a living. Well, but you also have to defend your life. The difference is that in making a living, others won't do the work for you, and in the army there are suckers who do it (and yes, it is a Picon situation).
In addition, when there is a lack of picon, there are concerns about spoilage. The Bible cites a dispute among the Rishonim about whether one desecrates Shabbat for my daughter who was kidnapped by Gentiles who will raise her as a Gentile for her entire life. Some of the Rishonim forbid desecrating Shabbat for this. And those who permit it because there is certainly a concern here, not a doubt, and she loses her Jewishness completely. It is highly doubtful whether those poskim would permit desecration of Shabbat if there is a concern that she will lose her rabbinate and stop wearing a gertel. Therefore, the distinction between concern for life and spiritual concern, even if there is indeed such a concern, is a distinction that is far from being obvious.
The duty to organize the army to serve the Haredim falls first and foremost on them. The stupid slogans that the army is progressive are a weapon of those who have run out of arguments. There are problems in the army, and it is not always run properly, in all areas, not just the Jewish area. Paying attention to this is simply childish. Beyond that, we have a government with a lot of Haredim, they have been in the coalition for many years. Let them force the army to organize properly. By the way, it is now organizing itself in a completely serious way, but it is convenient for the Haredim to point to local deficiencies as an excuse. One of the reasons the army was not organized properly is that the Haredim simply do not come. It is clear to everyone that this has nothing to do with the organization of the army. They want to differentiate themselves in order to preserve Harediism, not in order to preserve Judaism.
It doesn't work that way, so that others will do all the work for you and you sit back and wait until everything is to your satisfaction. I enlist even though the army puts my life at risk. Sometimes it also conducts itself in a rather stupid way that endangers lives. So you suggest that I not enlist because the army is progressive and pitied the Arabs? Do you have an alternative army? On the contrary, you will establish a Haredi army that will save us. I am sure that it will be run perfectly (like all Haredi institutions and municipalities). Sitting on the armchair and expecting others to do all the work to your satisfaction and pay for it with their blood so that you can benefit from doing your part, is a vicious evasion and not an argument.
And now I will end with what you would have considered an 'ad hominem' before the start of this lesson, and I hope you now understand that it is not: the fact that such simple things need to be explained at all, that it needs to be explained why these are stupid and evil arguments, the fact that someone in the universe sees them as eloquent and innovative and anyone who opposes them as brainwashed, all of this says something very bad about the thinking ability of the Haredim and those who buy their shills.
I hope I was clear despite my relationship with the ultra-Orthodox. I must say again that it is truly embarrassing and insulting to have such an unnecessary discussion against such stupid and evil arguments.
לגלות עוד מהאתר הרב מיכאל אברהם
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