Ein Aya – Lesson 25
This transcript was produced automatically using artificial intelligence. There may be inaccuracies in the transcribed content and in speaker identification.
🔗 Link to the original lecture
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Table of Contents
- [0:02] The topic of Hezekiah and Isaiah
- [1:46] The story of Hezekiah’s sons – Manasseh and Ravshakeh
- [2:52] Manasseh or Ravshakeh – who deserves death?
- [5:58] Hezekiah’s concern about his son’s inner traits
- [9:05] Two kinds of wickedness according to Rabbi Kook
- [26:47] God’s plan to blend prophecy and kingship
Summary
General Overview
This passage wraps up the topic of Hezekiah and Isaiah סביב the principle that even if a sharp sword is resting on a person’s neck, he should not hold himself back from mercy, and it adds—following the glosses of the Bach and Ein Yaakov—an aggadic ending in which Isaiah gives Hezekiah his daughter, and from them are born Manasseh and Ravshakeh. The speaker presents the aggadah about the two sons and Hezekiah’s reaction, and then moves to Rabbi Kook’s interpretation in Ein Ayah, where he explains the two sons as two types of wickedness: one immersed in the present and its desires, and the other a warped spirituality. Rabbi Kook explains “he struck them to the ground” as abandoning their guidance rather than lethal violence, and he explains Manasseh’s survival by saying that ideological wickedness still leaves room for intellect, for the future, and for repentance. In the end, the blending of the power of kingship with the power of prophecy is portrayed as God’s plan, and from this come broader distinctions between halakhic severity and other measures such as potential and repair.
Hezekiah, Isaiah, and not despairing of mercy
The passage closes with Hezekiah dismissing Isaiah and saying that even if a sharp sword is resting on a person’s neck, he should not hold himself back from mercy, and Rabbi Yochanan and Rabbi Elazar say the same based on the verse, “Though He slay me, I will hope in Him.” Rabbi Hanan adds that even if a dream interpreter tells a person, “Tomorrow you will die,” he should not hold himself back from mercy. The whole movement here shifts toward the axis of not despairing.
The glosses of the Bach and Ein Yaakov: Isaiah’s daughter, Manasseh, and Ravshakeh
In the Bach’s glosses at the bottom of the page, and also in Ein Yaakov, there is an added ending that does not appear in the Talmudic text before us: “In the end he gave him his daughter,” and “from him came forth Manasseh and Ravshakeh.” In the midrash described there, Hezekiah has two sons, Manasseh and Ravshakeh, and one day he carries them on his shoulders to bring them to the study hall. One says, “Look at father’s head—it would be good for roasting fish on it,” and the other says, “Look at father’s head—it would be good for offering a sacrifice on it to an idol.” Hezekiah “struck them to the ground”; Manasseh lived and Ravshakeh died; and he says about himself, “The miser and his devices are evil,” from Isaiah.
The question of identifying the two sons and assessing the severity of their acts
The speaker suggests that the more severe act is the statement about offering a sacrifice to idolatry, so it would seem likely that the one who said that is the one who died, but he emphasizes that the Talmudic text does not actually say which son said what. He connects that tension to the question why one of them lived and the other died, and presents this addition as the ending of the dialogue between Isaiah and Hezekiah.
Ein Ayah: Ein Yaakov, textual versions, and Rabbi Kook’s learning framework
Rabbi Kook in Ein Ayah brings the version in which the whole story appears, and notes that it is a different version from the Talmudic text before us. It is explained that Ein Ayah is called that because it is a work on Ein Yaakov, which is a compilation of the aggadic passages in the Talmud arranged by page order. Based on the version in Ein Yaakov, Rabbi Kook quotes here the addition that also appears in the Bach.
Hezekiah according to Rabbi Kook: examining inner traits and the two kinds of wickedness
Rabbi Kook describes Hezekiah as worried about his own inner traits, lest when they pass on to his sons they turn evil. Through divine inspiration he understands that there are problematic inner points within him that will emerge in his sons. Rabbi Kook divides wickedness into two kinds: one is “an extreme focus on concern only for the present, in a low and disgusting way,” and the other is “seeking the nation’s enduring spiritual existence and establishment in an evil and crooked way.” Hezekiah hopes that his merit together with Isaiah’s merit will create a repair, because combining the force concerned with eternity and the force concerned with the present may improve the result and produce “good traits fit for just kingship.”
Manasseh and Ravshakeh in Ein Ayah: the desires of the present versus idolatrous spirituality
Rabbi Kook states that “the two forces acted upon the sons,” and two different bad types were born, each according to his own character. “Apparently,” he identifies Ravshakeh as the one who says about his father’s head, “to roast fish on it,” and interprets this as contempt for every moral and royal value in favor of temporary sensual desire and a mode of leadership whose goal is the vile satisfaction of the present. Manasseh, by contrast, is presented as the one who says, “to offer a sacrifice on it to idolatry,” someone who recognizes the need for “a moral mission for the people” but gives himself over to “the spirituality of idolatry,” which does not demand great spiritual virtues and goes hand in hand with all desires.
“He struck them to the ground” as abandoning guidance, and why Manasseh lived while Ravshakeh died
Rabbi Kook interprets “he struck them to the ground” not as killing them but as leaving them to their own nature and stopping his guidance, because Hezekiah sees that adding knowledge will only add more evil and corruption in them. Manasseh lived because there was in him “some moral idea” and “an intellectual light,” and therefore he was fit to endure and had the potential to mature, recognize that he had lost the way, and return—“as indeed happened with Manasseh.” Ravshakeh died because his trait was entirely material without any moral component, and his powers were destroyed by the flood of his evil desires without restraint; the domination of the power of the present in an evil way leads to a lack of enduring existence.
God’s plan to blend prophecy and kingship, and the verse “the miser and his devices are evil”
Rabbi Kook presents this whole unfolding as “God’s plan to blend the power of prophecy with the power of kingship,” and as a divine wisdom about which it is said, “Who is wise, and who knows the interpretation of a matter?” He expounds the verse “the miser and his devices are evil” as referring to Ravshakeh, and explains that the miser “recognizes only himself,” because the senses deal with self-feeling, whereas the intellect recognizes the other as well and therefore makes connection and beneficence possible. He cites Maimonides’ rule in Guide for the Perplexed, “there is nothing universal in sense perception and nothing particular in intellect,” in order to frame universality and expansion toward the other and toward eternal existence as the work of intellect. He concludes with “charity saves from death” and “the nobleman plans noble things, and by noble things he shall stand” as a power of enduring existence, in contrast to the miser who has no enduring existence.
Potential for repair versus severity: ideology, indifference, and markers of identity
The speaker emphasizes that there are situations in which a less severe act may actually be more dangerous in terms of the future and the possibility of repair, because indifference and living for the moment without any spiritual dimension cut a person off from the possibility of return, while ideological wickedness still preserves an intellectual horizon that allows change. He gives examples of the distinction between halakhic severity and other indicators such as identity and seriousness—for example, the explanation that in conversion the emphasis on Sabbath and kashrut is not because they are more severe than murder, but because they uniquely mark Jewish identity and serve as a measure of the seriousness of acceptance. He ties this to Rabbi Kook’s approach, which sees Manasseh—despite his idolatry—as someone who still has hope and repentance ahead of him, and adds that even when a spiritual theory is used to justify desires, the very need for justification testifies to some connection to spirit; therefore it is meaningful to clarify and answer questions, unlike with someone who acts only out of immediate impulse.
Full Transcript
[Rabbi Michael Abraham] So we’re in the topic of Hezekiah and Isaiah. The topic concludes—sorry—with Hezekiah dismissing Isaiah and telling him that even if a sharp sword is resting on a person’s neck, he should not hold himself back from mercy. It was also stated: Rabbi Yochanan and Rabbi Elazar both said, even if a sharp sword is resting on a person’s neck, he should not hold himself back from mercy, as it says, “Though He slay me, I will hope in Him.” Now look, I’m moving to the next page. Rabbi Hanan said: even if a dream interpreter tells a person, “Tomorrow he will die,” he should not hold himself back from mercy, and so on. And the whole story now shifts to this question of not despairing. But the Bach—I’m going back to the previous page—the Bach at the bottom of this page, in the Bach’s glosses here on the side, adds an ending to the Talmud. Look here where my cursor is, letter bet there: “Though He slay me, I will hope in Him”—in the end he gave him his daughter. Right, none of this appears in the Talmudic text. This is in the Bach’s glosses, and this addition also appears in Ein Yaakov. “In the end he gave him his daughter,” meaning that in the end Isaiah really did give him his daughter. “From him came forth Manasseh and Ravshakeh.” This is very interesting. It’s a terrible confusion, this thing, because in the midrash here it suddenly appears that Hezekiah had another son named Ravshakeh—not Ravshakeh the Babylonian, but Ravshakeh the son of Isaiah—the son of Hezekiah, sorry, the brother of Manasseh. He had two sons, Manasseh and Ravshakeh. “One day he placed them on his shoulders to bring them to the study hall.” So one day he put both of them on his shoulders to bring them to the study hall; Hezekiah took his two children. “One of them said”—and by the way it doesn’t say which of the two—so he says: “Look at father’s head, it’s good for roasting fish on.” And one said: “Look at father’s head, to offer on it a sacrifice to an idol.” “He struck them to the ground”—so he lowered them to the ground; seemingly he banged them onto the ground, really hard, though it’s not clear that that’s really the intention. “Manasseh lived and Ravshakeh died.” So Manasseh remained alive, but Ravshakeh died. “He said about himself”—so Hezekiah said about himself: “The miser and his devices,” right, there it’s written with a chet, but the meaning is miser, stingy, “and evil”—that’s from Isaiah. And then it continues: Rabbi Hanan said, even if the master of mercy and so on—that already belongs to the next page. So this story really concludes the dialogue between Isaiah and Hezekiah, and apparently it has some connection here—that is, what actually came out of this whole story? So out came Manasseh and Ravshakeh: one of them roasts fish, the other offers idolatrous sacrifices on his father’s head, he knocks them to the ground, Manasseh remains alive and Ravshakeh dies. And that’s interesting, because it’s supposed to be connected somehow, obviously, to their two attitudes earlier—that one of them deserves to die and the other remains alive. Who deserves to die? I would say the one who says to offer idolatrous sacrifices, right? A more severe transgression than roasting fish on father’s head. Meaning, he seems to be in a worse state. So Ravshakeh, who died, was apparently the one who said that father’s head is good for offering sacrifices to idolatry. And Manasseh is maybe the one who said to roast fish on it, whatever the exact issue is. But in any case, that’s what appears in the Bach as a completion to the Talmud. Now I’m moving to Rabbi Kook. Right, so Rabbi Kook brings this version here above; he even notes that it’s a different version. In the Talmudic text before us this whole story doesn’t appear, but you need to know why the work is called Ein Ayah. The work is called Ein Ayah because it revolves around the work Ein Yaakov. Ein Yaakov is a collection of the aggadic sections of the Talmud, in page order, but only the aggadah. They remove the—leave only the wasting of Torah study, meaning they remove all the substantial parts and leave the wasting of Torah study, and that’s what’s called Ein Ayah. It’s good for householders between Minchah and Ma’ariv, and we know, that’s—
[Speaker B] There were Shas groups and Ein—
[Rabbi Michael Abraham] Ayah groups; that’s how they used to learn in all the wagon-driver towns. In any case, around this work Ein Yaakov, Rabbi Kook writes Ein Ayah. Meaning, it’s really a commentary on Ein Yaakov, and therefore when he brings this version of the story here, he’s simply bringing it because that’s the version in Ein Yaakov, the version that appears in Ein Yaakov. For us, it’s the Bach’s version. Fine. In any event, let’s see what Rabbi Kook writes about this matter. After all, there was at least one wagon driver worth seeing what he wrote. “As he was concerned about his inner traits, that when they would come to his sons they would turn to evil.” Right—Hezekiah was actually worried about his own inner traits, that when they would come to his sons they would become evil. What does that mean? When Hezekiah saw that a son would come from him—right—not exactly a great one, not some great righteous person, Rabbi Kook adds here that he was actually worried about his own inner traits. Meaning, how did he know his children would turn out like that? Why should they turn out like that? Apparently something in him was flawed. So Hezekiah looked at his inner traits, and that’s what led him to worry that when those traits came to his sons they would become evil. And that’s apparently what this divine inspiration revealed to him—he saw that this is what would come out of his sons. After he saw that, he apparently examined himself, and he understood that there were problematic points within him, and those problematic points would be actualized through his sons, and that’s what would make them evil. So he began examining himself, especially after Isaiah told him that he has no right to refrain from procreation and that he does need to have children. Fine. If he already has to have children, especially if Isaiah has already given him his daughter too, then we saw that the assumption is that the merit of both of them might perhaps improve this—change this fate and change his children, maybe they would indeed be righteous. So Hezekiah starts examining himself; he starts checking inside himself what exactly the problem is within him that causes the children and turns them evil. In other words, the assumption is that there’s something flawed in him, and that’s why the children come out evil. It’s not random. “When he recognized through divine inspiration—behold, wickedness can take…” right, wickedness can take two forms, Rabbi Kook says. “Either by going to an extreme in seeking only concern for the present alone, in a low and disgusting way.” Right, one form of wickedness is living in the moment. Living in the moment, only the present, in the lowest possible way—this is a kind of hedonism, maximum desires and impulses and pleasures, and only the present, without thinking about eternity, without thinking about the future. I remind you of the background in the earlier passages—not last week but the week before—where we saw that this was basically the tension between Hezekiah the king and Isaiah the prophet. The king is supposed to look at the present, and the prophet is supposed to look at the eternal. And we spoke there about the question whether the present is always connected to matter and eternity to spirit; I argued that this connection is not correct, or at least not necessarily correct, even though people often make it. And I remind you that last week, when we spoke about prayer as temporal life, there too the tension was between temporal life and eternal life. Between looking at the moment and looking at eternity. So this runs through all the passages Rabbi Kook writes about this dialogue between Isaiah and Hezekiah. It’s always this tension between eternity and the present. This passage too deals with that. This passage too is talking about the same issue, and he says there are two types of wickedness. The first type is “going to an extreme in seeking concern only for the present alone, in…” right, I’m reading here, “in a low and disgusting way.” That’s the first type of wickedness. In other words, living in the moment, just pleasures, leave me alone, I’m not interested in eternity, not interested in spirit, not interested in the future. Or another kind of wickedness—that’s the second type—“or to seek the enduring existence and spiritual establishment of the nation in an evil and crooked way.” Meaning, there is a wickedness that actually lies on the spiritual plane, not the material plane, and once again we return to the fact that for Rabbi Kook, eternity is connected to spirit and the present is connected to matter. And I already spoke about that somewhat critically two weeks ago. I said that this connection really… In any case, here Rabbi Kook continues with this correlation he makes, and the first wickedness is the present alone, in a low and disgusting way—impulses and pleasures, living in the moment. And the second wickedness does indeed speak about the future, about the spiritual, but notice: it’s wickedness. Why? Because it wants eternal spirituality, but in an evil and crooked way—bad spirituality. Right, that’s of course the idolatry described here in the aggadah; in a moment we’ll see. “Therefore he said”—that is, when Hezekiah basically searched within himself, because he saw that divine inspiration had apparently shown him that he would have sons who would turn out wicked. From that he concluded that apparently there was something problematic inside him, because otherwise why would his sons turn out wicked? Now he tries to think: what kind of wickedness is this? Is it the first kind, the kind of relating to the moment, living in the moment, the impulses? Or the wickedness of crooked spirituality? Right—whether this is basically pleasures or wicked conceptions, maybe that’s how you could put it. Is it pleasures, surrender to impulses, abandoning spirituality, or going toward spirituality but a crooked spirituality? A bit in this context, in the Mishnah in Pirkei Avot it says: what is the difference between the disciples of Abraham our father and the disciples of Balaam the wicked? I once heard someone—seems to me it was Rabbi Moshe Shapira, I’m no longer sure, not certain—who said: what does it mean, the disciples of Balaam the wicked? Usually we’re used to the idea that in order to be righteous, to know Torah, you need a rabbi, you need to study under someone. So Abraham taught Torah—right—to the women and the men, Abraham and Sarah—so there’s something to learn there. But what is there to learn from a rabbi in order to be wicked? If you want to be wicked, just follow your impulses and be wicked. What, is there a Torah of wickedness? So he argued that yes—Balaam had a Torah of wickedness, and he had disciples. Just as one can learn the good, one can also learn the evil. There is a spiritual teaching with wicked values, with crooked spirituality. Right, that’s basically what he wants to say here, and it’s very interesting because Balaam really was a prophet, the greatest of the prophets of the nations of the world. They said his level was like Moses’, right? Meaning that the prophet—who for Rabbi Kook represents looking at spirit, at eternity, at the future—that’s also true of Balaam, only Balaam looks at spirit and eternity and the future in a crooked way. And that’s exactly what he says here: this is the second type of wickedness—not material wickedness but spiritual wickedness, not lust but ideology, wicked ideology. “Therefore Hezekiah said”—so I continue reading—“perhaps the merit caused by me and by you,” meaning that your merit, Isaiah, and mine, “will help, so that good sons will come forth.” That perhaps what is ready to act when it comes forth into actuality for evil is only the psychic force concerned with the present, but if the force concerned with eternity is gathered together with it, its condition will improve. What does that mean? After all, Isaiah is a prophet; a prophet is occupied with spirit, with eternity. And I’m a king; I deal with the present, temporal life. Okay? My evil is probably the first kind of evil, local, temporary, momentary evil. Okay? If your merit comes, Isaiah, maybe you’ll manage to repair my evil. Why? Because perhaps you will nonetheless engender some spiritual, eternal, long-term perspective, and even if the son comes out with some potential for temporary evil, in the eternal perspective your merit will ultimately help him correct his ways. Right? “But when the force concerned with eternity is also gathered with it”—that’s what I just read—“its condition will improve to the point that it may be possible for the sons, in their combination, to have good traits fit for kingship—for kingship in justice.” Right? In the end, if we wait long enough and the long range arrives, then the partnership with Isaiah’s merit will be able to correct the momentary potential for evil. Then Rabbi Kook says this: “However, the two forces acted upon the sons, and from him came forth Manasseh and Ravshakeh, the sons possessing bad traits, each according to his own particular nature.” A very strange thing happened here, like—you know Bernard Shaw and Brigitte Bardot, that Brigitte Bardot said to Bernard Shaw: let’s get married, the children will come out beautiful like me and smart like you. So he said, yes, I’m only worried they’ll come out beautiful like me and smart like you. So what’s happening here, basically, is that Hezekiah wanted to combine forces with Isaiah: he would provide the vision, right, the long-term vision, the spiritual outlook, and Hezekiah—who had corruption within him, at least something within him was corrupt, but a momentary corruption—then the long term would correct the momentary corruption. What came out? Two wicked sons: one a local wicked man and one an eternal wicked man. Right, one spiritually wicked and one materially wicked—really Bernard Shaw’s dream. So he says, “the sons possessed bad traits, each according to his own particular nature.” “He exerted himself greatly to prepare them, to teach them Torah and ethics and the way of understanding with all his might.” Right, so he took them to the study hall because he wanted nevertheless to correct them. “As the Sages said in Kings I”—where exactly?—“and elsewhere apparently, or in an aggadic midrash, I don’t know where this is—‘Did Hezekiah teach Torah to the whole world, and to his son Manasseh he did not teach?’” After all, Hezekiah taught Torah to the whole world, so to his own son he didn’t teach? So Rabbi Kook says, of course he taught him. Here he was carrying his two sons on his shoulder in order to take them to learn Torah. “And this is understood from ‘he placed them on his shoulders to the study hall,’ that he placed both of them on his shoulders to the study hall.” But their bad traits overpowered all benefit of study and guidance. “But they diverged”—right, so he tried to correct them, but their bad traits still prevailed. “But they diverged, and one said”—in parentheses Rabbi Kook adds—“apparently this was Ravshakeh.” The opposite of what I said in the Talmud. In the Talmud it doesn’t say who said what. But I said: Manasseh remained alive and Ravshakeh died. I asked which of them is worse—the one who wants to worship idols or the one who wants to roast fish on his father’s head? I would say the one offering sacrifices to idolatry. Therefore the one who died should have been the one who said to offer sacrifices to idolatry. And yet Rabbi Kook says Ravshakeh, apparently, is the one who spoke about roasting fish, specifically not the sacrifices to idolatry. Meaning—he explains—because the worth of his father, who strove to lead the people in the way of understanding, to enlighten them in Torah and good character traits, all of that was considered by this rebellious son to be nothing at all. All the good qualities and virtues and wisdom and righteousness of his father were worth nothing in his eyes. “And he said that kingship is fit only for obtaining temporary sensual pleasures in the basest and most contemptible way in the eyes of every person of spirit.” So he is basically saying: what is my father’s head good for? The head, of course, means my father’s wisdom, my father’s good traits and virtues. What is it good for? To roast fish on. In other words, he wants immediate pleasure, to eat something tasty now, and for that you need kingship; nothing else matters to him at all. “It is understood that he himself made for himself a path”—but what happened with Ravshakeh?—“to cast off from himself the yoke of morality, fear of God, and proper conduct, and he turned to negation and every vile desire.” Right, meaning that he basically began to run wild with his impulses and became thoroughly wicked. That’s Ravshakeh up to this point, who according to Rabbi Kook’s suspicion was the one speaking about roasting fish. The Talmud doesn’t say. Why? Because he thinks Ravshakeh was the one who lived in the moment—the first kind of wickedness. “And one said”—which is apparently Manasseh—“Look at father’s head, to offer on it a sacrifice to idolatry.” Right, look at father’s head, it’s good for offering on it a sacrifice to idolatry. “He recognized that the people also need a moral mission.” Meaning, he doesn’t disdain morality. He understands that you need some vision, some values, some kind of spiritual outlook. “But not the mission for which Hezekiah toiled, namely the Torah of God that raises man upward on high, but rather to devote himself to the spirituality of idolatry, which does not demand from a person great spiritual virtues and goes together with all desires.” So Manasseh basically became wicked in the second sense. He’s an ideological wicked person; in other words, he adopts a spiritual worldview, not a material one like Ravshakeh, but a crooked spirituality—meaning spirituality directed toward idolatry instead of the spirituality of Hezekiah. So in fact two wicked sons came out of him, of the two types he described above. “He struck them to the ground”—I continue reading—and then he struck them to the ground. Rabbi Kook says this: “Seeing that his guidance of them was of no use”—meaning he sees it’s not helping and they’re becoming wicked—“and that by adding knowledge they would add evil and corruption. ‘The righteous walk in them’—the ways of God are upright, the righteous walk in them and transgressors stumble in them.” Meaning, you add knowledge, you take them to learn Torah, and this simply develops in them the two types of wickedness that were rooted in them at their source. “He left them to their own nature to conduct themselves according to their choice.” So Hezekiah decided to leave them alone, not teach them Torah, and let them do whatever they understood—there was no point investing in them, they were lost cases. By the way, that’s Rabbi Kook’s interpretation of “he struck them to the ground,” as I described when I read the Talmud. In the simple sense it means “he struck them to the ground,” meaning he took them off his shoulders and threw them onto the ground. Manasseh remained alive and Ravshakeh died. Rabbi Kook says no—he didn’t kill them because of that. He left them alive. “He struck them to the ground” means he took them off his shoulders and did not take them to study. That’s what “he struck them to the ground” means. In other words, he took them off his shoulders because he no longer wanted to take them to learn. Then what happened? Why did one live and one die? He continues explaining on that level. He says: “Manasseh lived, because after all there was in him some moral idea, and although it was corrupted, nevertheless, since there was some intellectual light, he was fit to endure, because at least he would not utterly destroy the body through his unrestrained desires. For he recognized that, at the very least, for the body’s continued existence some degree of spiritual conduct is required. And furthermore, since at the very least he had some purpose and some place for intellectual thought, a day would come when his intellect would mature and he would recognize that he had lost the way and return, as indeed happened with Manasseh.” We know that Manasseh repented at the end of his life. So why? Rabbi Kook says this: even though Manasseh was apparently worse—he was the one speaking about idolatry—but idolatry is a spiritual evil. He has values, he has religion, he has ideology, he has spirituality—just going in a crooked direction. Unlike Ravshakeh, who is just roasting fish, living in the moment; he’s not interested in the Holy One blessed be He, not in idolatry, not in spirituality at all. So even though apparently Manasseh’s transgression is more severe, Ravshakeh’s condition is better—sorry, Manasseh’s condition is better. Why? Because there is still spirit in him, even if it’s a spirit going in a crooked direction. That is better than someone who just lives in the moment and in impulses and material or bodily pleasures. And if you have spiritual concerns and you look to the long term, there’s a chance that you will also reach conclusions, activate your intellect, think more, and maybe in the future, in the long term, be able to correct your path. At the moment you’re corrupted, but someone who lives for the long term still has more opportunities to correct his ways and return. And indeed that’s what happened with Manasseh. “But Ravshakeh, whose trait was entirely material, without any moral component, died.” By the way, often in Rabbi Kook “moral” means spiritual. Suddenly now I’m thinking—now the penny just dropped for me. Maybe even in places when I talk about Rabbi Kook’s ethics, it’s really an interesting point to discuss, that “moral” there may simply mean “spiritual.” I’m not sure he means morality in the sense of morality or ethics. Fine, just a side note—some little light bulb went on for me now, I need to think about it more. “For his bodily powers weakened and were destroyed by the flood of his evil desires without restraint. And in Ravshakeh there was the domination of the power of the present in a starkly evil way.” And that’s the point—therefore Ravshakeh died, not because of being struck to the ground, because according to Rabbi Kook there was no violent striking to the ground. He simply took them off and didn’t take them to learn Torah, and left them to do what they thought best. What happened to Ravshakeh? Nothing remained of him. He was thoroughly wicked; he died right away. He has no future, no hope. “And the domination of the power of eternity,” Rabbi Kook says, “acted upon Manasseh so that, at the very least, he joined some feeling and intellectual idea to his debauchery. And that caused him”—and that’s what caused him—“to endure in kingship, and from him came a shoot and a ruling seed, and he himself also returned to God.” In the end, he himself returned to the Holy One blessed be He. Right—without ideology you can’t be a king. If you just live in the moment, nothing will remain of you. A wicked king can be a king if his wickedness is of the second type, the ideological type. Right? That’s ideological wickedness, not the wickedness of reckless indulgence. It would actually be interesting to check all the wicked kings in the Hebrew Bible—there’s a sort of thesis here saying they could not have survived if it weren’t spiritual evil, but only hedonistic, material, low evil. “And that caused him to endure in kingship, and from him came a shoot and a ruling seed, and he himself also returned to God.” In the end, when you teach your children that spirituality is important, it may be that they accept the claim that spirituality is important but do not accept the kind of spirituality you are trying to transmit to them—they take the crooked spirituality—and still something good can come out of them. But if you don’t transmit spirituality at all, just living in the moment, then nothing good can come out of that. Therefore from Manasseh there could come a shoot and a ruling seed, and even he himself ultimately returned to God, because over time he also has time to correct himself. “And it was God’s plan”—that’s what happened, up to here the story of what happened there. Okay? “And it was God’s plan to blend the power of prophecy with the power of kingship,” what we saw earlier. “And this is the wisdom of the Holy One blessed be He”—by the way, in the end Isaiah, according to the Bach, gave his daughter to Hezekiah. Rabbi Kook claims that all of this was God’s scheme from the outset. He sends Isaiah to speak with Hezekiah, already knowing that in the end it will develop so that he gives him his daughter, and everything will be repaired and everything will be fine. And that was God’s plan from the outset: to blend the power of prophecy with the power of kingship. I remind you: prophecy is looking to the distant future, spirituality. Kingship is temporal life, looking at the moment and at materiality. “And this is the wisdom of the Holy One blessed be He, about which it is rightly said in wonder, ‘Who is wise, and who knows the interpretation of a matter?’” That’s how the passage in the Talmud begins, I remind you. The topic in the Talmud begins with this sentence, that the Holy One blessed be He was wise, and somehow arranged for Isaiah to rebuke Hezekiah, and in that way managed somehow to repair the matter. “And concerning Ravshakeh he rightly called out, ‘The miser and his devices are evil’; the miser recognizes none but himself.” Right, the miser, the stingy one, recognizes only himself. The verse “the miser and his devices are evil” is a verse in Isaiah—maybe if you want to look at it for a moment. So it’s like this—Isaiah chapter 32. It says: “For the fool will speak folly, and his heart will work iniquity, to practice hypocrisy and to utter error against the Lord, to empty the soul of the hungry, and to cause the thirsty to lack drink.” Right—the scoundrel there is basically the miser. He does not give charity, does not give drink to the thirsty, does not give food to the hungry, commits iniquity and hypocrisy, and so on. “And the miser and his devices are evil.” So it moves on to speak about the miser. “Miser” means a stingy person, and that’s the same scoundrel from before. “He devises schemes to destroy the poor”—or the humble, right—“with words of falsehood, even when the needy speaks justly. But the nobleman devises noble things, and by noble things he shall stand.” So there’s a contrast here between the miser and the nobleman. For our purposes, what matters is that the miser does not give to the other. Why? Because he loves only himself, he sees only the moment and his own pleasure, he does not see the one around him. Right, he doesn’t take into account at all that there are people around him who are in need. “And the nobleman devises noble things, and by noble things he shall stand.” The nobleman, by contrast, basically sees the reality around him. Meaning, the root of the difference between the miser and the nobleman is actually very similar to the two types of wickedness we spoke about in the Talmud. Because the miser is that same person who lives in the moment, the pleasure of the moment, and that basically means he lives only himself. Because what exists in the moment and in pleasure is only me myself. The ability to see the other or to feel the other, empathy—that is something more connected to intellect, to spirituality; it does not come through desire. And that’s the nobleman. The nobleman is the one who looks at what is happening around him. True, that’s a necessary condition but not a sufficient one—but it is still necessary. There can be someone who sees his surroundings and still decides not to give to them, and that is exactly someone with bad spirituality. He is spiritual in the sense that he works with intellect, he understands his surroundings, but he does it—he takes it in an evil direction; he chooses bad ideals, bad values. The miser is not even that. The miser is just someone living in the moment. Okay. So the nobleman is a third type, someone who is both spiritual and positive. But there are two kinds of wicked people: there’s the miser, who is the wickedness of the moment, and then there’s someone who stands between the miser and the nobleman. The nobleman—but the nobleman factually, not ideologically. Meaning, he sees the environment, he is spiritual, he is intellectual, he understands there are people around him, he understands what the people around him think and feel—but he is crooked, he is wicked, and still does not take them into consideration. Okay, that’s what comes out here from these verses. Let’s go back now to Rabbi Kook; we’ll be able to understand him better. I’m returning to the marked passage in Rabbi Kook.
[Speaker B] So from here it follows that there’s no such thing as a miser toward himself.
[Rabbi Michael Abraham] What do you mean?
[Speaker B] Like, if he’s stingy only toward himself, but he does give to others, then according to this he wouldn’t be defined as stingy or as a miser for this purpose.
[Rabbi Michael Abraham] Ah—you mean someone who is stingy about spending on himself?
[Speaker B] On himself, but he does give to others—so he wouldn’t count as a miser in this context.
[Rabbi Michael Abraham] He isn’t called stingy here. That’s what we would call a miser, but what’s called a stingy person here, I think also in the words of the Sages, if I’m not mistaken, is only someone who doesn’t give to others. Not what we call a miser today; really that’s a little different—you’re right. “The stingy person recognizes only himself.” Meaning, stinginess begins first of all with a certain perception. The perception is that he simply recognizes only himself; he doesn’t see his surroundings. And likewise, someone immersed in the lusts of the senses recognizes only himself, because in the senses there is only feeling, and feeling doesn’t… you can’t feel the other person. You feel yourself. The other person you have to understand. But feeling is always something that relates only to you—what you feel, the pleasures or sensations are feelings that relate to you, right? But someone who has some intellect in him, through intellect he also recognizes the other person. And it is impossible to be completely stingy. All right? Someone who recognizes the other person cannot be completely stingy. What does that mean, completely stingy? He can be stingy, but not completely. What is the not-completely-stingy person? Someone who recognizes the other person and nevertheless doesn’t take him into account or doesn’t give to him. But the stingy person being spoken about there is someone who doesn’t see his surroundings at all. He sees only himself. He lives feeling, and feeling by its essence deals only with me. Intellect deals also with the surroundings. What you do with that afterward is a question of your values, but your perception—if the perception is intellectual, then you understand, or you also sense, the surroundings. That is basically his claim. But “the stingy man—his tools are evil,” because he too cannot ultimately endure even for himself. So in the end, if he sees only himself at the center, in the end he himself also will not be able to endure. Not only does his environment suffer from this; he himself has no right to exist. And eternal existence comes from intellect… because this is a momentary matter—again, this is the transience he kept talking about all the time. So your existence too can only be momentary; you have no future. And eternal existence comes from intellect, which also recognizes the other person. Yes, recognizing the other person is the use of intellect, or a spiritual matter, and then by its very essence it no longer extends only across space—not only to recognize myself but also the other person—but also across time. Meaning, it also points toward the future. As Maimonides stated in the Guide for the Perplexed: “there is no universal in the senses, and no particular in the intellect.” What does that mean? This is a quote from Rabbi Kook, from Maimonides, sorry, where Maimonides says: there is no universal in the senses. The senses do not grasp a universal thing. The senses always grasp something specific. When I see something, I see a certain object or event. I never see a general law. General laws are always an intellectual act. I take examples and make some kind of generalization. So the move from the concrete, specific thing to the broader thing, both in space and in time, is always an intellectual act. And that’s what Maimonides means when he says there is no universal in the senses. The senses never see the—by the way, this Maimonides is very interesting, because it’s exactly David Hume’s problem. David Hume, about five hundred years after Maimonides, even more, basically says that all general laws, the general laws of nature, cannot be the result of observation. They cannot be the result of observation, because observation shows us only a specific event. How do I see that fire always burns? I saw that fire burned here, and that fire burned that, and that it burned—but how do I know that fire has such a general property, that it always burns? That is a generalization made by the intellect. It takes the specific, momentary, local thing and turns it into something broader, something inclusive, whether in space or in time or in ideas—but that is always already an intellectual, spiritual matter. It is not the senses, not the impulse, not the material thing. The material thing is always momentary and local and focused. Expansions are always made by the intellect. Rules are always a matter of intellect. There are no rules that come from seeing, contrary to what many people deceive themselves into thinking—that our science is empirical science. Our science is a science that begins with empiricism, but afterward the work of the intellect always arrives. In any case, therefore he will also feel the other person and connect with him and benefit him. And this has consequences—this outlook has consequences—for eternal existence, and “charity saves from death.” He offers an interesting explanation: why does charity save from death? What is special about charity? Because charity is a commandment between man and his fellow man. When you sense the other, that basically means you are acting on a spiritual, value-based, intellectual basis, and not on the basis of momentary, subjective, personal pleasures and impulses that focus on you; rather, you are looking at something broader. And if so, that is a quality conducive to life, because then you can go on living even forever and not die immediately, as happened to Ravshakeh. When Ravshakeh was stingy, then “the stingy man—his tools are evil”; he died immediately. Yes, “the stingy man—his tools are evil” is a play on words saying that the stingy person himself also cannot hold out. It’s not only that his environment suffers because he does not give it charity, he does not help it, and so on—he himself will not remain. “His tools are evil”—his own tools too are evil, meaning he will be wiped out. He has no right to exist in the long term, because he does not deal at all with the long term; he deals with the moment. By the way, this is not only some spiritual quality; it is also natural. Someone who does not think long-term usually survives less. Part of our ability to survive is to deal with future problems, to think ahead—how do I prepare, how do I ready myself—and the ability to think long-term is very important for our survival. Someone who does not think long-term, someone who does not think about his surroundings, usually will also survive less. By the way, altruism too—the scholars of evolution have already taught us that altruism is a very important instrument for survival. There is something very egoistic in altruism; that is, only altruistic groups survive, or at least survive better. “And the generous man plans generous things”—that continues the verses we saw in Isaiah, which is why I read it earlier; it is the continuation of that same verse. “And by generosity he shall stand,” and endure forever. His generosity—“charity saves from death.” And “by generosity… he shall stand,” meaning he will endure forever, unlike the stingy one who dies on the spot, because he has some kind of spiritual vision. And so the trait of kingship stood out—why is that the trait of kingship? Remember? Because the king is the moment and the prophet is eternity, right? So the trait of kingship stood out negatively in Ravshakeh. Ravshakeh lived the moment, so the trait of kingship stood out negatively in Ravshakeh, and he had no endurance. Yes, because “the stingy man—his tools are evil.” And the trait of prophecy, at least in its concern—in its concern for the future, apparently there is some sort of typing problem here, I think—even though the concern for the future is concern for a crooked future, not a good future, still, as long as you are a spiritual person you think about the future, and this is the root of the impulse toward idolatry in Menasheh, and from this there grew salvation and an end and hope, in accordance with the words of the Kuzari, that sometimes the heart is hidden in a shell, but afterward it will emerge from potential to actuality, like the Patriarchs, who were greatly refined until they emerged from their mistaken ancestry. Yes, Abraham came from Terach. Purified and whitened, fit for the light of God and His providence, for the Torah of truth, to call in the name of God. Basically he is hinting here that Terach’s sin—what was Terach’s sin? Terach was not a pleasure-seeker. Terach’s sin was idolatry. And Terach was wicked of the second type, with crooked spirituality; therefore Abraham came from him. If Terach had been wicked of the first type, nothing could have come from that. He stands in place—he has no seed, no branch, nothing at all. But Terach was wicked of the second type; he was an idol worshiper. Such a person has hope. Such a person—his children, or even his own future—can change. And that is exactly what happened here. Notice: this is all a kind of play on Isaiah and Hezekiah; everything returns to them, with prophecy and kingship. Because Hezekiah too, after he combined the merits of Isaiah with the plan of the Holy One, blessed be He, now two things were created here. True, there was evil—everything that came from Hezekiah came out bad—but because he attached Isaiah to himself, yes, Bernard Shaw, then what came out was the wisdom—the wisdom of Brigitte Bardot and the beauty of Bernard Shaw. That’s basically what came out. Okay? But since wisdom—even if it is Brigitte Bardot’s wisdom—but wisdom is still something connected to wisdom, even if it is bad wisdom, so it has some chance of improving, unlike someone who has none of that at all. And therefore two children came out. One was the wicked person of the first type, Ravshakeh: he died on the spot; no shoot or branch or anything at all came from him. Nothing can come from such a person. The second one was also wicked, but he was spiritually wicked. A spiritually wicked person has hope; something good can come from such a person, exactly like Abraham and Terach. The same thing here. And therefore this whole discussion basically closes the circle around Hezekiah and Isaiah. All right, so that’s the passage. Now let’s just talk about it a bit. There really is an interesting question here, one that comes up in many, many contexts: sometimes there is a person or an act that could be considered perhaps the depths of evil, and another act is not quite as bad as the first, and yet in certain respects the first act is preferable to the second. Just examples: people often say, yes, many times it is more important that a person keep wearing a kippah than that he observe the Sabbath. Why? A kippah is a custom—what is the big issue with a kippah? Violating the Sabbath is punishable by stoning, one of the most severe transgressions there is. But the point is this: if he keeps wearing a kippah, then somehow in the long term he has a chance—or if not him, then his child. But if he desecrates the Sabbath, then nothing remains of it. Even though, of course, desecrating the Sabbath is a much more severe transgression. Or in another context—and this is a claim I’m very fond of, though I think it’s Machiavellian—but it comes up a lot among people: various claims, yes, especially I saw this a few times around Rabin’s assassination. People said—often these were people somehow connected to Torah V’Avodah loyalists and various kinds of religious leftists—how can it be that a murderer is considered a religious murderer, but someone who doesn’t eat kosher is not religious? What—eating kosher is less severe than murder? More severe than murder? Or in conversion, for example: they are strict with the convert about, I don’t know, family purity, Sabbath observance—why not about honoring parents? After all, his parents aren’t even his parents anymore after conversion. Why not honoring parents? Why not obligations between man and his fellow man? Why not care with another person’s money? Why is the emphasis not put there? Why is the emphasis put on the ritual side? All these are demagogic claims in my view, and incorrect. Why? In the context of the convert, maybe it is even easier to explain. When we require a convert to observe commandments, the observance of commandments required of him and taught to him is that same observance of commandments that defines him as a Jew. Because here commandment observance is not a value in itself; it is a measure of how genuine this conversion is. Now if this convert is a good person—he honors parents, doesn’t murder, doesn’t steal, helps others—does that indicate in any sense that he is a good Jew? Not at all. It indicates that he is a good person. These are things every good person is supposed to do, and does do. If you want an indication that a person is a good Jew, then you have to take something unique to Judaism. Observing the Sabbath or eating kosher is unique to Judaism; family purity is unique to Judaism—not because it is more important. Murder is a more severe prohibition than all of these; that is obvious. But murder is a more severe prohibition for the whole world too. It is a moral and legal prohibition for the whole world. And of course it is among the seven Noahide commandments. Okay? When you are looking for something that distinguishes a Jew, that does not necessarily mean it will be a more severe or more important matter. But it does mean it is more distinctive. When you want to define a Jew, you do not define him as someone who has two legs. Even though that is true—a Jew should have two legs. Why not? Because that does not define him; it defines all human beings. When you want to define the Jew, you have to define him through traits unique to him, as opposed to other human beings. Not because they are more important than legs, but because they are more distinctive than legs. Okay? Therefore, in the context of conversion, in my opinion the conversion courts are right when they put the emphasis on ritual commandments and not on moral commandments. Not because ritual commandments are more important, but because ritual commandments are the real indication of the seriousness of his conversion. Otherwise, he is just a good person. Not “just”—he is a good person, but that is not an indication that he is a Jew. If I am looking for an indication that he is a Jew, it is much more important that he observe the Sabbath than that he not murder. Important, again, not in the sense that it is more severe, but that it is more indicative. There are sometimes other aspects of importance that are not necessarily halakhic importance. And that is why I said earlier that when you read the Talmudic passage—what would I have bet Ravshakeh said, and what would I have bet Menasheh said? Ravshakeh dies and Menasheh lives. So I would have said, okay, Ravshakeh was probably the one who wanted to offer idolatrous sacrifices on his father’s head. And that is a more severe transgression than roasting fish there. Rabbi Kook says: no. That is of course a more severe transgression. But the mindset of idolatry is a mindset with greater potential for repentance than the mindset of roasting fish. Someone who is interested in nothing except eating a tasty fish is worse—not that the transgression is more severe, but he is worse—than someone who worships idols ideologically. At least he has an ideology; spirituality matters to him, values matter to him. So they are not good values, and his ideology is mistaken and perhaps even wicked, but no matter: he is a person who acts with an ideology. We know this too. You know, people often say that the most dangerous thing for Jewishness is indifference. Being anti is good. Someone who is anti means that somewhere it touches a nerve, and therefore he makes the effort to fight against it. Someone who is indifferent is lost; you won’t change anything in him. Even though fighting against it is, ostensibly, worse than being indifferent. He is more harmful, it is more severe, he is more anti. Okay, true. But in terms of potential—what can come from him—there are other aspects in which, from that standpoint, he is actually preferable in some sense, or at least has better potential for repair. And therefore here too: true, offering an idolatrous sacrifice is more severe, but on the other hand it has greater potential for repair. Therefore Rabbi Kook, contrary to what I suggested when I read the Talmudic passage, claims that specifically Menasheh—the one who survived, who repented at the end of his life—was the one who said to bring idolatrous sacrifices, and did not speak about roasting fish. Okay? It is like how going beyond the letter of the law is sometimes far more meaningful than the law itself. Someone who is careful about the law itself—fine, because he operates with the law. But someone who goes beyond the letter of the law shows that the matter really matters to him. Even though going beyond the letter of the law may not be more important than the law. But if you want to see how connected a person is, how much the matter truly matters to him, many times it is more correct to measure that by what is beyond the letter of the law, and not by the strict letter of the law itself. And therefore the halakhic scale of values is not always a universal scale of values. Meaning, sometimes there are other aspects in which it is not right to use the halakhic scale of severity; rather, there are other relevant scales. And in that sense, Rabbi Kook says, someone who worships idols is preferable to someone who just follows his desires. Because someone who worships idols at least serves something outside himself, at least activates the mind, the spirituality, the vision, the… that is, he lives in some sphere beyond the here and now. But there is one more interesting point here. Wait. Here: because to become addicted to the spirituality of idolatry—that is Menasheh—which does not require a high spiritual level… because I said, I contrasted it this way, and I think Rabbi Kook defines it this way too. That is, going after desires is the stingy person, the one who lives the moment. The idolatry fellow does not go after desires. He is ostensibly a spiritual person, just with crooked spirituality. And here he suddenly mixes it up. He says that the spirituality of idolatry, first of all, does not require great spiritual stature. It is spirituality on a low level, okay? Yes, in terms of the level of abstraction at least, it is clear that when you require some tangible embodiment of the idol before you, you need a concrete idol, unlike the Holy One, blessed be He, who is some abstract reality. So clearly a religious attachment to the Holy One, blessed be He, is more spiritual, more abstract, sees further ahead, than the spirituality of idolatry. So that is the first aspect: idolatry does not demand great spiritual qualities from a person. It is low spirituality. But besides that, it is also crooked, yes? And what does that mean? Rabbi Kook says: it goes together with all desires. So it is desires after all? Meaning, then he is not really speaking about abstract spirituality, but about living the moment, the desire. But that is precisely the stingy person, not the crookedly wicked idol worshiper. Right? So there is an interesting point here, and I’ll just mention it briefly—one could say a lot about this. It is the story of the turkey prince. I think I may once have brought it up here too; I don’t remember anymore. The claim is basically that many times we live in the spiritual sphere, but our spirituality is harnessed in order to realize our desires. That is, basically I build a theory with ideals and values and vision and a study hall—yes, the disciples of the wicked Balaam—but in the end what I want to achieve is simply the fulfillment of my desires. And that is what he says here: that the spirituality of idolatry basically goes together with all desires. More than that: it is what gives them backing. Idolatry allows me to do things that I am really doing because of my evil inclination. And still, Rabbi Kook says, that is better than someone who lives the moment. Why? True, the spirit is harnessed to the impulses, but still the impulses have to harness the spirit in order to function, in order to be realized. As opposed to a person who does not even need spiritual theory to back up the impulses, what he wants to do. He is not looking for justifications. He just does whatever he feels like, and that’s it. Even that person whose theory is basically just a justification for his desires is still in a better state. Because the fact is that he needs a theory in order to act. The very fact that he needs it—what does that mean? That he is not yet completely cut off from the spirit. It does not go directly from the desires to the limbs and the action. No—it has to pass through the head. After the head builds a theory, then he does it. So true, the theory only serves the impulses, but the very fact that he needs a theory basically means that there is still a spiritual dimension in him, and therefore he also has hope. This is a very interesting remark by Rabbi Kook, and it also touches on current events or on our own lives. Because with us too, many times—for example when I speak with people about questions of faith—I often tell them: listen, people ask questions in faith only in order to justify what they really want to do. “Israel sinned only in order to permit forbidden sexual relations to themselves.” Okay, also regarding idolatry, the Sages have various midrashim that say similar things. A person looks for a way out; he no longer has the strength, so he builds for himself some questions.
[Speaker C] And it is written about idolatry. What? Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav—that is written about idolatry.
[Rabbi Michael Abraham] Yes, right, I said there are also midrashim that speak about idolatry; there are others like that too. So people told me: then what is the point of arguing with him about philosophy or about difficulties and resolutions, if in the end the whole business is only excuses to do what he really wants to do because of his impulse? First of all, I do not agree that this is always the correct diagnosis. But I claim more than that. Even if that is the diagnosis, there is still a point to the argument. Why? Because the fact is that he does not just go and do whatever he wants. He still makes the effort to raise questions and build a theory that will back what he wants to do—follow his impulse. So even if I accept the diagnosis about a certain person, that truly all this is intended only so that he can fulfill his impulse, still the fact is that he is not like those who simply fulfill their impulses because that is what they feel like doing, period. He needs to build the theory, and only then will he do what he has in mind. If so, there is a point to arguing. If I show him that his theory does not hold water, if I manage to convince him that the theory he built is not correct, it could be that he really will not do what he wants to do. Because the fact is that he needs the questions and the refutations and the theory in order to carry out what he wants to do—even though if I… But with him it is not like that. Still, the very fact that he needs justifications means that there is reason to discuss it. Therefore I think those who say there is no point in discussing questions with people are mistaken—even if they were right in the diagnosis, and again, I say, even about the diagnosis I do not always agree. But even if they were right in the diagnosis, that these questions are really answers, still questions need answers. And a person who raises doubts needs to be engaged with and one should try to convince him as much as possible. Because if he needs the theory, and you show him the theory does not work, it could be that in the end he also will not take the step his impulses are calling him to take. Okay, that’s all for today. If anyone wants to comment or ask, now is the time. Okay, so that’s it. Good night, see you.