Q&A: Questions on Tractate Ketubot
Questions on Tractate Ketubot
Question
Hello Rabbi Michael,
Today I learned in tractate Ketubot 17a the following:
- "Rav Acha would carry her on his shoulders and dance. The rabbis said to him: What about us—may we do this as well? He said to them: If they are like a beam in your eyes—then yes; if not—no." How was Rav Acha not concerned about appearances, that people might think such behavior is permitted?
- "Rabbi Shmuel bar Nachmani said in the name of Rabbi Yonatan: It is permitted to look at the face of a bride all seven days, in order to make her beloved to her husband. But the law is not in accordance with him." Does this mean that in general it is forbidden to look at women's faces at all? After all, that is not how people actually conduct themselves?
- "The rabbis taught: One interrupts Torah study for carrying out the dead and for bringing in the bride. They said about Rabbi Yehuda bar Rabbi Ilai that he would interrupt Torah study for carrying out the dead and for bringing in the bride. In what case is this said? When there are not enough with him for all his needs; but if there are enough with him for all his needs, one does not interrupt. And how many is 'all his needs'? Rav Shmuel bar Ini said in the name of Rav: Twelve thousand men and six thousand shofar-blowers; and some say: Thirteen thousand men, of whom six thousand were shofar-blowers. Ulla said: Such that men form a line from the city gate to the burial place. Rav Sheshet, and some say Rabbi Yoḥanan, said: Its taking away is like its giving. Just as its giving was with six hundred thousand, so too its taking away is with six hundred thousand. And this applies to one who reads and studies, but one who teaches others—there is no measure for him." Is it possible to interpret this passage as meaning that there is no actual obligation to go to a funeral or a wedding, only that it has greater value than Torah study (and therefore it is proper to interrupt Torah study for it)? Or should we say there really is an obligation? If so, what is the Jewish law on this nowadays?
Best regards,
Answer
1. There is indeed a concern that people might think it is permitted, but on the other hand there is the commandment to gladden the bride. Beyond that, perhaps he did this in front of Torah scholars only (and in fact they asked him whether it was permitted for them as well. Perhaps he even arranged in advance that they would ask him). And perhaps it was clear to everyone that Rav Acha was a special case.
2. There is a prohibition against looking at women in order to derive pleasure from their beauty (plainly speaking, only sexual pleasure, not merely aesthetic appreciation). And in the Shulchan Arukh, Even HaEzer 65:2, it is ruled from this passage that one may not look at the bride herself, only at her jewelry. I think the intention is to rule that even looking at a bride's face is forbidden (because there was an initial assumption that with a bride it might be permitted in order to make her beloved to her husband. That is what Pitchei Teshuvah writes there, note 2). But according to this, it is not clear how people dance before the bride saying, 'a beautiful and gracious bride,' if it is forbidden to see her. After all, you also cannot really lie like that, since everyone knows it is forbidden to look at her face. And it is forced to say that one is praising her jewelry and not her face. In our times, though, the custom is that people do this, and it is not considered immodest (the norms have changed). Still, if it brings a person to forbidden thoughts, it should be forbidden.
3. It is commonly accepted that there is an obligation to go to a funeral and to a wedding, but it is a flexible obligation. If you are close to the person and you have no other pressing engagement. In their times, few people were invited, so they pushed everyone to attend. There are flexible obligations, like Torah study, that reasonable constraints override. The passage there is speaking about the funeral of a Torah scholar, which is a special law (but that too depends on social norms, especially since the Rema wrote that nowadays the category of 'Torah scholar' does not apply for certain laws).
Discussion on Answer
I don't think there is an obligation, unless he is the leading sage of the generation (is there such a person?) or your rabbi in some sense. But there is certainly value in it.
Following up on this question: regarding the funeral of an outstanding Torah scholar nowadays, is there an obligation to attend his funeral?