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Q&A: Women Receiving an Aliyah and Reading from the Torah

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Women Receiving an Aliyah and Reading from the Torah

Question

Hello Rabbi Michi,
I wanted to ask about women reading from the Torah, and I’d appreciate sources. I’m starting from the assumption that women can read from the Torah, and the question is in what way:
1) Does it need to be before a quorum of men, or is a quorum of women enough? (And implicit in that is the question whether there is such a thing as a women’s quorum.)
2) Can all those reading be women, or do the first three readers have to be men?
3) Can a woman recite the blessing over the Torah reading when she receives an aliyah, and in the context of the above questions, in what forum?
4) When the woman recites the blessing, does she say the standard blessings, including Barekhu?

Answer

I’ll tell you my personal view (many halakhic decisors disagree, but in my opinion this is conservatism with no halakhic basis whatsoever).
There is no halakhic impediment to reading from the Torah and receiving an aliyah even within a quorum of men. There is no impediment to all those receiving aliyot being women. This is an explicit rule in the Mishnah (“all count toward the number of seven”), and there is no need for hair-splitting arguments in order to permit it. True, they speak about preventing women from reading because of the dignity of the congregation, but in my opinion that argument is not relevant today (no man is offended by a woman being more learned than he is, since that is extremely common today. And even if someone is offended—that is entirely his problem. If anything, my sense is that the congregation is harmed by excluding women from something there is no reason to exclude them from).
She recites the standard blessings, because there is no difference between her and a man. And in any case, the Ashkenazic custom is that women recite blessings even over commandments they are not obligated in. Especially since they are obligated in the blessings over Torah study (see Shulchan Arukh, Orach Chayim 47).
If you want to look into it more deeply, I’m attaching a very moderate article (I am more radical than it is) that discusses the matter in detail:
 
You can find many more articles on Google (though one should know that not everything written in an article is necessarily correct, of course).
 
As for a women’s quorum, this is discussed in Aryeh Frimer’s article, and here there is a summary, including sources as you requested (taken from here):
 
A different question is whether women can themselves constitute a quorum parallel to a quorum of men, that is, a prayer service including the recitation of “Barekhu,” “Kaddish,” “Kedushah,” and the other matters that require a quorum. In the article “The Status of Women in Jewish Law – Women and a Quorum,” Rabbi Aryeh Avraham Frimer brings three approaches regarding women joining a quorum: [21]
According to the first approach, women join a quorum only in matters for which the exact same obligation applies to them as to men, whether the obligation is Torah-level or rabbinic, as long as the obligation is equal for all. According to this approach, women join a quorum of men because their obligation is identical.
Meiri says: “Anything that requires ten—some say that since women’s obligation in it is equal to men’s, they join the ten… but this does not appear correct,” meaning that some hold this, although it is not Meiri’s own view.[22] In his comments Meiri relies on Rabbi Chaim Eliezer ben Yitzhak, author of Or Zaru’a, who said: [23]
And although regarding zimmun they said [Berakhot 45a], “women recite zimmun for themselves”… because of licentiousness… but for the Megillah they join, though this does not appear correct. It is a simple custom from the words of the Geonim that when reading the Megillah they spread it out like a letter in order to publicize the miracle, and not roll it like a Torah scroll.[24]
[Since the Megillah is opened like a letter in order to publicize the miracle, unlike Torah reading, reading the Megillah is not identical to Torah reading. Therefore there are views that permit women to join in publicizing the miracle, and in the case of the Megillah women can therefore be active participants.]

That is to say, the commandment of reading the Megillah is clearly considered a commandment whose essence is publicity, and therefore all the laws that apply to Torah reading do not apply to it.
Although women are obligated in individual prayer, they are exempt from communal prayer, and therefore according to this definition, which makes their joining depend on publicity, they do not join a quorum for prayer. Accordingly, their prayer as a group cannot include matters of sanctity and will always remain in the category of individual prayer. Regarding Torah reading, according to most halakhic decisors women are exempt, but Rabbi Yosef Teomim, author of Pri Megadim, holds that women do not join a quorum for Torah reading because they are exempt from the reading, unlike the reading of the Megillah, where they are obligated and therefore do join. [25]
The second approach rejects women joining for anything connected to a quorum. The source for this opinion is in the Talmud, tractate Berakhot 45b: “A hundred women are like two men” [that is, a hundred women are considered like two men]. In that passage the Talmud is discussing the obligation of zimmun, and later writes that women recite zimmun for themselves and slaves recite zimmun for themselves once there are at least three people, because there are three “minds,” and three minds are more significant than two men. But Tosafot explains that any number of women will never help for matters that require a quorum, and even a hundred women will still always be considered only as two.
There are additional sources that strengthen this view, such as the Vilna Gaon’s commentary.[26] The claim is that since women are not fit to complete a quorum, they cannot join Torah reading even in cases in which they too are obligated in it, such as the section “Zakhor.” According to this approach, the determination is not made based on the level of women’s obligation, but on the determination that they cannot join a quorum for the sanctification of God’s name.
According to Rabbi Yosef Engel: “The concept of a community depends on inheriting the Land and holding it, for only through that do people connect and gather together, but women have no holding, since they did not receive a portion in the Land, and therefore are not called a community.”[27]
Another opinion within this approach is that of Rabbi Gedaliah Felder, who holds that for a person to be considered part of the community, he must be wholly given over to the public at that moment, and since women are always under the authority of their husbands, they cannot devote themselves to the public and therefore do not join a quorum. [28] In order not to distinguish among women, the same law would apply even to unmarried women.
According to this approach, women cannot conduct any ceremony that requires a quorum, because from the outset they are not permitted to read from the Torah. Therefore even in cases where women are obligated to hear the Torah reading, they cannot join a quorum because they are not fit to complete a holy congregation. Here joining does not depend on obligation, but on their fixed status as women.
The third approach distinguishes between a quorum for “fulfillment” and a quorum for “publicity.” In a regular quorum, a minimum of ten men is required in order to fulfill certain commandments, but there are cases where the purpose of the commandment is only publicity, and in such cases women join a quorum of men even if their level of obligation is not identical to that of men (unlike the first approach).
It seems that this distinction between these two types of quorum was first made regarding the reading of the Megillah, and this is the view of Ran:[29]
And Nachmanides wrote… that all those listed there [in Mishnah Berakhot 23b] are communal obligations, and they are not done unless there are ten, or most of them are obligated in the matter, such as those who did not hear Kaddish and Barekhu. But for Megillah, ten are not required except because of publicizing the miracle… [Unlike other texts that require a quorum for their fulfillment, for the Megillah the quorum is required for publicity, and therefore women certainly participate as well in publicizing the miracle.]
Ritva also holds that women join a quorum for the purpose of Megillah reading: “Therefore here [to join them] to ten is only for the publicizing of the miracle alone… they do join.”[30]
In practice, the great later authorities ruled that women join a quorum for the sake of publicity, such as Megillah reading. A dispute emerges regarding women joining for a matter of sanctity, since this is a classic example of something whose essence is the sanctification of God’s name in public, that is, publicity. If so, do women join for matters of sanctifying God’s name or not? Some associate them with this approach, such as Rabbi Meiselman, but in Rabbi Frimer’s opinion, women joining for the sanctification of God’s name is possible only according to the first approach.[31]
 
Notes:
[19] A.A. Frimer, “The Status of Women in Jewish Law – Women and a Quorum,” Or HaMizrach, vol. 34 [issues 1–2 (120–121)], New York, 1986.
[20] Based on Orach Chayim, siman 55, law 1.
[21] Above, note 19.
[22] Based on Orach Chayim, siman 55, law 1.
[23] Brought by Rema at the end of siman 690.
[24] Rav Hai Gaon, cited there.
[25] Rosh Yosef, Megillah 23a, s.v. “Lema R. Akiva,” Lvov, 18th century, cited in Frimer (above, note 19).
[26] Commentary of the Vilna Gaon to Orach Chayim 199, siman 100, law 6, and see further sources in note 73 of Frimer’s article there.
[27] In Gilyonei HaShas to Berakhot 45a, cited in Frimer, ibid.
[28] Pri Yeshurun, on Tanna Devei Eliyahu Rabbah part 1, on Shema and its blessings, section 15, p. 368, cited in Frimer, ibid.
[29] Milhamot Hashem to Megillah 5a.
[30] Ritva’s novellae to Megillah 4a, s.v. “She’af.”
M. Meiselman, Tradition 52 (3), Fall 1975 [31] cited in Frimer (above, note 19), note 20.
[32] See Frimer (above, note 19), note 71.
——————————————————————————————
Questioner:
Hello Rabbi Michi,
Following up on my questions about Torah reading for women, I read Rabbi Frimer’s article (and also saw that you posted my question and your answer on your site). It seems to me that Rabbi Frimer is more comfortable with women receiving aliyot specifically within a quorum of men, and not even when all those receiving aliyot are women.
I want to sharpen our questions, because our minyan is about to decide how we are going to conduct ourselves. We are speaking mainly about Simchat Torah, when the Torah reading (in most synagogues I know) is split into several stations according to the number of Torah scrolls, in order to allow as many people as possible (including children) to receive an aliyah.
In the framework of the prayer service we held over the last two years, we split up so that there was one Torah scroll in the men’s section and two scrolls in the women’s section (several hundred Orthodox women came in order to receive aliyot). In the men’s section, only men read and received aliyot, and in the women’s section only women read and received aliyot.
The questions that are important for us to receive a clear ruling on are:
 
1) When there are only women in the space (that is, there is no quorum of men, or there are no men at all), is it permitted for women to read from the Torah and receive aliyot, including saying “Barekhu”? Is saying “Barekhu” one of the matters of sanctity that requires a quorum of ten men? Or can ten women also constitute a quorum?
 
2) According to those who hold that specifically a quorum of ten men is required, does the mere fact that there are men in the men’s section constitute a “sufficient” quorum so that women can say “Barekhu” when receiving an aliyah, or must one make sure that there are ten men specifically intending to answer “Barekhu” at each one of the stations?
 
With blessings and many thanks,
——————————————————————————————
Rabbi:
But I already answered you according to my opinion. I also added that, as you know, there are other opinions. I think there is a misunderstanding in what you are saying about what a halakhic ruling is. If you expect a description of the views, I already said there are opinions in both directions. Within that, my opinion is one more opinion, exactly like Frimer’s opinion. If for some reason you specifically want my opinion (even though I am not your community rabbi, and of course you have no obligation to accept it), then I wrote it. Now you have to decide what to do. What does it mean to give a clear halakhic ruling? Do you expect me to decide for you whether to follow my opinion or other opinions? But even regarding that decision itself, you could accept or reject my opinion, and we are back to the same point again.
 
I’ll repeat again: in my opinion, a women’s quorum is a quorum for all purposes, and one may read, receive aliyot, and recite blessings in such a quorum. More than that, in my opinion this is much better than a situation in which ten male potted plants are sitting in the men’s section, unrelated to the matter, and thanks to them, so to speak, you get to receive aliyot in the women’s section somewhere else. In such a situation, would the Holy One, blessed be He, dwell in the men’s section while you read and bless Him in the women’s section?! The quorum is supposed to be ten people who are partners in the act of reading and who answer the blessings of the person receiving the aliyah—not clever gimmicks of this kind.
 
Much success,
Michi
——————————————————————————————
A.:
In honor of Rabbi Michael Abraham
      Following what you wrote regarding aliyot for women, please see the attached article:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwJAdMjYRm7IQmM1N2JSYkRlejg
——————————————————————————————
Rabbi:
Thank you for the article (which was already familiar to me, at least in part, and I’ve commented on it quite a bit).
I’ve now gone through it again quickly, section by section, and saw that it is good. Although of course there is a great deal to discuss in the usual way of Torah study, I will note here only a few comments (and again, I hope I’ll be forgiven if I err, since I went through it very quickly):
1. It seems to me that at least in some cases, the halakhic decisors who hold that women are exempt from Torah reading do not say this prior to the consideration of the dignity of the congregation, but on the basis of that very consideration. If so, then according to their view the conclusion could come out differently (for if the consideration of the dignity of the congregation falls away—and of course that too requires discussion—then the obligation itself returns). That is how I wondered about the words of the Mishnah Berurah, who brings the Magen Avraham and brings no dissenters, yet still notes that nowadays many did not follow him and women also had the custom of attending. This implies there is no principled dispute here, only a lack of insistence on implementing their obligation for some secondary reason (dignity of the congregation??). Still, this requires further study: why attend if they are not obligated? Is there any prohibition in the matter?! I haven’t checked now.
Be that as it may, regarding receiving an aliyah and even reciting the blessing, there is much room to permit it even if they themselves are not obligated in the reading, as the article says.
2. The Rashba’s statement that you brought—that in a public setting anyone can read, even someone not obligated—should be expanded further. By way of introduction: in commandments imposed on the community, women too are obligated as part of the community, even if these are commandments from which they would otherwise have been exempt (for example, time-bound commandments, as with Hakhel, as implied by Sefer HaChinukh and others). Therefore perhaps with Torah reading too, even if one understands it as part of the law of Torah study (which itself is highly doubtful in my view for several reasons), since it is communal Torah study, women are included in it, and it comes out that even according to the strict law they really are obligated in it, and not merely able to receive an aliyah and recite a blessing.
3. I would also note that regarding the dignity of the congregation, if I understood correctly (I read very quickly), the article mainly discusses two claims: 1. whether it can be waived; 2. whether human dignity overrides it (Sperber’s argument). But a third argument can also be raised: 3. nowadays, in our current situation, there is no issue of dignity of the congregation at all, because the congregation’s dignity is not harmed when women read or receive aliyot. Perhaps the opposite: when they do not receive aliyot, that is what harms the congregation’s dignity. That of course depends on the question of what the dignity of the congregation means, and this is not the place to elaborate.
4. I’ll add further that even if the medieval authorities and the halakhic decisors explain the term “dignity of the congregation” in a certain way, in the end the law still depends on whether in practice the congregation’s dignity is actually harmed or not. For example, even if someone explains that the congregation’s dignity is harmed if someone not obligated receives an aliyah, and even if we assume that women really are not obligated in the matter, still one must discuss what the law is if, as a matter of fact, the congregation’s dignity is not harmed by this in practice (or at least that is how it is perceived today). Is that exactly like a congregation that waives its dignity, such that it depends on whether it can waive it or not (as discussed in the article)? Or perhaps the idea that it cannot waive it is said only when in most cases the congregation does in fact view this as a harm to its dignity; and then there are opinions that if a specific congregation wants to waive it, it cannot. But here, where reality has changed and in all congregations (at least the modern ones) this is not seen as a harm, then according to all views there is no problem of the dignity of the congregation, and it does not depend on whether a congregation can waive it or not. In other words: the question is whether the halakhic decisors’ determination that this is not the dignity of the congregation is factual or normative.

There is also a related question here.

Discussion on Answer

Abraham A. (2022-09-22)

Hello Rabbi,

It still wasn’t clear to me what the source is for the claim that from the standpoint of Jewish law it is possible to hold a Torah-reading quorum consisting only of women, without a quorum of men. I want to ask Your Honor whether I understood correctly that the source for this is as follows:

The very fact that a woman can receive an aliyah to the Torah is explicit in the words of the Sages: “All count toward the number of seven, even a woman.” Does the very fact that she may receive an aliyah teach that there can also be a reading quorum consisting only of women? Is that the source? In other words, if she is valid to receive an aliyah to the Torah, does that teach that she is an integral part of the commandment of reading, and therefore it is understood that women also constitute a quorum for Torah reading?

Is that the source? Or is there another source for being able to hold a women-only quorum for Torah reading?

Thank you very much!

Michi (2022-09-22)

Hello,
According to my view, what requires a source is that they cannot. Among the medieval authorities there are different opinions, and as far as I have seen there is no clear halakhic source brought for this. These are reasonings, customs, assessments, and so on. In my estimation, in our current situation it is even more reasonable to see women as a factor that joins a quorum, and assessments of the situation can change depending on the period (so long as there is no clear source). The burden of proof is on the one who forbids.
If there is any clear source at all, it is the Mishnah that all count toward the number of seven, and if the woman counts toward the number of seven then she is apparently commanded and belongs to the matter. So why shouldn’t there be a women’s quorum? Anyone who wants to distinguish between counting toward the seven readers and joining a quorum—and there definitely are such people—the burden of proof is on him. The plain meaning of the Mishnah is as I wrote.

Abraham A. (2022-09-23)

Many thanks to Your Honor for the clear answer!
Just one last question so I can understand well:
Does what Your Honor said apply only to the quorum required for public Torah reading, or also to a quorum for communal prayer (where perhaps there too there is no explicit source that a woman is not counted)?
Again, many thanks!

Michi (2022-09-23)

Definitely yes. More than that, I also tend to think there is no basis at all for saying that a woman does not join a quorum of men (women are not a separate people unto themselves, and the Rosh’s invention sounds dubious to me). The situation would be different if she were not obligated, because then perhaps she would not join. But women are obligated in prayer (according to the Magen Avraham, twice a day).

Abraham A. (2022-09-23)

Many thanks for Your Honor’s reply!

Just one last point regarding whether there is an explicit source in the Talmud concerning the law of a women’s quorum: what is written in tractate Berakhot (45b) regarding zimmun, “A hundred women are like two men”—is that relevant to the issue of a women’s quorum or not?

The Talmud there tries to prove that although two men are not obligated in zimmun, they are permitted to recite zimmun. As proof, the Talmud brings what is explained in the baraita that “women recite zimmun for themselves,” and about this the Talmud says by way of proof: “A hundred women are like two men”! From this the Talmud learns that if women recite zimmun, then so too two men can recite zimmun. End quote.

Seemingly, the plain meaning of the Talmud is that women, although they are not obligated in zimmun (and therefore they are like two men who are not obligated), nevertheless, if they wish, they may recite zimmun; and if so, the same would be true of two men who are exempt from zimmun—that even so, if they wish, they may recite zimmun.

In the end the Talmud rejects the proof and says that “women recite zimmun for themselves” because there are “minds” there (= seemingly, the meaning is three people), which is not the case with two men, where there are no “minds.”

In light of the above, seemingly there is no proof whatsoever from the statement “A hundred women are like two men” that women cannot constitute a quorum, because what is being said there is that just as a hundred women are exempt from zimmun and nevertheless may recite zimmun, so too two men who are exempt from zimmun may recite zimmun.

However, I saw that people raise a difficulty from the passage in tractate Arakhin (3a), where it seems that women are obligated in zimmun, as it says there: “All are obligated in zimmun—what does this come to include? It comes to include women and slaves, as it was taught: women recite zimmun for themselves, and slaves recite zimmun for themselves.” Seemingly it is explicit that women are obligated in zimmun. According to this, I don’t understand the Talmud’s proof in Berakhot (45b) from women’s zimmun to two men. In other words, how can one learn from the fact that women are obligated in zimmun that two men—who are exempt from zimmun—can recite zimmun?

Can the contradiction be resolved by saying that these are different sugyot in how they understand the baraita “women recite zimmun for themselves” (in tractate Berakhot they understood from this that women are permitted to recite zimmun but not obligated, while in tractate Arakhin they understood from this that women are obligated in zimmun)? Or to say that the one offering the proof in tractate Berakhot, who wanted to bring proof from women’s zimmun to two men, simply did not understand the baraita “women recite zimmun for themselves” correctly, thinking it meant permission and not obligation, and to that the responder answered him that this is incorrect because there are “minds” there and it is a case of obligation to recite zimmun and not permission to recite zimmun? Or perhaps in practice one does not derive Jewish law from a view that was rejected in the Talmud, even if it was rejected for other reasons (that is, the Talmud did not reject the words of the one offering the proof because women are obligated in zimmun, but because there are “minds”)? Therefore perhaps one should not bring proof from what he said, “A hundred women are like two men.”

What is Your Honor’s opinion on all this? Are the Talmud’s words “A hundred women are like two men” connected to matters of a quorum for matters of sanctity and the like? What does the Talmud mean by this?

Attached is a nice article by Deborah Koren on women’s zimmun, from which I learned the basics of the above:

file:///Users/macbook/Downloads/Koren-zimun.pdf

Again, many thanks!

Michi (2022-09-23)

This is talking about zimmun, and I do not see a necessary connection to prayer. As for the contradiction, it already comes up among the medieval authorities. For example, Tosafot there in Berakhot says that in Arakhin as well it is talking about permission and not obligation. Tosafot there does write that women are like two men also regarding a quorum, but it seems that permission to make a quorum for themselves they certainly have, just as with zimmun. And in fact there is logic in comparing zimmun to a quorum, even though they are obligated in Grace after Meals and in prayer. However, it seems that Tosafot there make this depend on women’s understanding, and today that certainly does not apply. Regarding a mixed quorum of women and men together, that requires discussion, as above.

Netanel (2022-10-19)

What about the Jewish law (see Mishnah, tractate Rosh Hashanah, chapter 3, mishnah 8) that someone who is not obligated in a commandment cannot discharge the public’s obligation in that commandment (“Anyone who is not obligated in the matter cannot discharge the many of their obligation”)? Women, after all, are not obligated to hear the Torah reading on Monday, Thursday, and Sabbath, and therefore it follows from that law that they cannot discharge the public’s obligation when they read from the Torah (so that all the men participating in such a quorum have not fulfilled their obligation).

It may be that the reason the Sages (and halakhic decisors nowadays as well) did not rely on this law in this context is because it covers only something like 99% of the cases (that is, not including, for example, Purim and “Zakhor”)—and also because there are other laws that are sweeping in 100% of cases—but as I understand it, it is certainly enough to make all women’s readings on Sabbaths irrelevant for the male public who hear them (if indeed it matters to those men at all to fulfill that commandment).

In addition, I think that from an educational standpoint, anyone who makes changes not in accordance with the Shulchan Arukh and not in accordance with prior halakhic foundations within the chain of the generations is, in the long run, scoring an “own goal,” and afterward cannot be surprised if his children make their own changes as they see fit (up to complete assimilation—a matter of 3–4 generations statistically?).

Michi (2022-10-19)

It would be worth directing these questions to the Talmud. And indeed, the Magen Avraham proved from here that women are obligated. By the way, it is not at all clear that the person receiving the aliyah discharges the public’s obligation with his blessings. The public is not obligated to recite a blessing. It is also not at all clear that this is a blessing over a commandment.
As for educational considerations, they don’t really interest me, even if the hysterical fantasies written here were correct. I am discussing the question of what is right, not what is useful.

Abraham A. (2022-10-19)

I recently saw in a post by Rabbi Yitzhak Ben David that the gaon, author of the book Mikra’ei Kodesh, Rabbi Noah Zvi Grodzensky of blessed memory—a student of Rabbi Elchanan Spektor and one of the leading halakhic decisors of America in the early 20th century—ruled that women may receive aliyot to the Torah, recite the blessing, and join the ten of a quorum for Torah reading.

See his words here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SZqDESPPjmHPxXt1mdkgb8b7Tr9cnAsL/view

About him, see here:

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%99_%D7%94%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%A9_%D7%92%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%93%D7%96%D7%A0%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%99?wprov=sfla1

The post from which I learned of this ruling by that gaon:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0AhaMkiBoNBxkZRkvienLzX7DG25zbKgyaauYYhLsZqxNk28miwhRepfAZ22wnzL1l&id=100005516923860&sfnsn=scwspwa

Michi (2022-10-19)

Rabbi Abraham. Just this evening, on the holiday eve, I posted a piece dealing with his words. Column 510.

Abraham A. (2022-10-19)

Thank you very much, Rabbi! I didn’t know!
I saw it here:

עלייה לתורה לנשים: עלייה, ברכות ומניין (טור 510)

(I wrote the link here for ease of searching)

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