Q&A: Indirect Causation on the Sabbath — Bringing Extinguishing Closer
Indirect Causation on the Sabbath — Bringing Extinguishing Closer
Question
Hello Rabbi,
In the Talmud in Tractate Shabbat 47b it says that it is forbidden to place a vessel with water in order to catch the sparks, because that “brings about their extinguishing sooner.”
Tosafot already asks about this: how is this different from any other case of indirect extinguishing, which the Talmud on 120b explains is permitted?
And he answers, in one of the answers: “There it is permitted to make a barrier out of vessels that contain water, because it does not extinguish anything until the vessels burst; but here there is no separation between the water and the sparks, and they are immediately extinguished when they fall into the vessel, and it is like a barrier of water, which is forbidden.”
I have not been able to understand why it makes a difference whether there is a separation between the water and the sparks or there is no separation between the water and the sparks.
If the Rabbi could enlighten me, I would be very happy.
Answer
I think that there the issue is “bringing its extinguishing closer,” which is forbidden, as opposed to indirect extinguishing, which is permitted. When you make a barrier out of vessels, you are not extinguishing, only causing it indirectly. The fire cracks the vessels, the water comes out, and it extinguishes. But when you place water under the sparks, you are bringing about their extinguishing, since they are extinguished as soon as they enter the water. I don’t see what is similar between the two cases.
Discussion on Answer
When you place water in a spot the fire is expected to reach, you have extinguished it directly, just in an indirect way. When the water is inside a vessel, the fire extinguished itself.
By the way, I’m not currently in the details of the passage, but it seems to me that they distinguish there between a case where I simply put the water below and a case where I bring the water close to the sparks.
Thank you very much.
By the way, that distinction is Tosafot’s second answer, and my question was about the first answer.
Thanks again.
What is similar is that in both cases you are not extinguishing directly with your hands, but only causing the extinguishing. Why should it matter how I cause it, so long as I did not extinguish it directly with my hands?