Q&A: Lying So That the Words Will Be Accepted
Lying So That the Words Will Be Accepted
Question
In today’s Daf Yomi, Eruvin 51, the source is brought for the Magen Avraham, Orach Chayim 156, which you often cite, proving from there that Rabbah said a ruling to Rabbi Yosef in the name of Rabbi Yosei even though Rabbi Yosei himself never said it. And it is explained in the Talmud that he said it in Rabbi Yosei’s name "so that he would accept it from him," because Rabbi Yosei’s reasoning is with him.
It seems to come out that they acted by attributing a statement to someone who never said it, so that the accepted Jewish law ruling would be received—and not merely so that his words would be heard, as the Rabbi usually explains. After all, he told him the matter in the name of Rabbi Yosei, whose rulings are always followed since his reasoning is with him. For example, if someone tells his friend that a certain Jewish law ruling is explicit in the Rema and that the halakhic decisors of our time likewise rule that way in practice, the point is not that he is allowed to do so because the other person will check it. I should note that in the situation the Talmud describes, they certainly did not have books in front of them to consult, or time to deliberate, because they were walking on the eve of the Sabbath and had to establish residence in a certain place. This was a matter of minutes.
The explanation the Rabbi gave for the Magen Avraham’s words is indeed plausible, but from the plain sense of the Talmud it appears that one is simply allowed to lie arbitrarily if one thinks and is convinced that this is the Jewish law.
Answer
I don’t understand the argument. Why can’t it be explained that he attributed the words to Rabbi Yosei so that I would think about them again? There is no need at all for books in order to reconsider something.
Discussion on Answer
According to Rabbi Michael Abraham, apparently it should be said that "because his reasoning is with him" is not an explanation of why the Jewish law was established in accordance with him, but rather an explanation of why attributing the statement to Rabbi Yosei is effective in stirring the listener to examine the matter again—for his reasoning is with him. Think carefully about it.
The fact that his reasoning is with him is a reason for ruling the Jewish law in accordance with him—just as one might say that the law follows a certain halakhic decisor because he explains his responsa very precisely. But in the present case, Rabbah ultimately did not mention Rabbi Yosei’s reasoning, since he never gave a reason for something that he himself never said.
If it’s in the name of Rabbi Yosei, then Rav Yosef would assume that his reasoning was with him, and so there would be even more reason to re-examine the matter.
When would he have time to examine it? The Sabbath was beginning immediately—they were overtaken by nightfall, and the practical difference was immediate regarding Sabbath boundaries!
There is no point in going over this again and again. I explained it well, and you just keep repeating that this is not what the Talmud implies. And I am saying that it is indeed a possible interpretation of the Talmud. What is the point of repeating it again?
The law follows a certain halakhic decisor because his reasoning is with him only when you yourself have no independent position and need to lean on a great authority. When you do have your own position, you do not need to lean on anyone.
Therefore one of two possibilities applies here: either he wanted to cause him to think about it again (and you do not need books, nor a lot of time, in order to think), or he did not have his own position and wanted to give him a great authority to rely on.
It is forbidden to lie so that words will be accepted.
But sometimes it is permitted to do something even if it is forbidden.
Leave the books out of it; the case is that Rabbi Yosef simply did not know what the Jewish law was, and Rabbah told him the ruling in the name of Rabbi Yosei without giving any reason. And the reason he said the ruling in Rabbi Yosei’s name is that, in the general rules of halakhic rulings, the law is established in accordance with Rabbi Yosei.
It follows that from the straightforward sense of the Talmud, it seems permitted to tell an outright lie when you know and are convinced that this is the Jewish law—and not for the reason that the other person will reconsider the idea behind what you are saying.