חדש באתר: NotebookLM עם כל תכני הרב מיכאל אברהם

Q&A: What does the Rabbi think about this claim as proof of divine providence in the merit of Torah study?

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This is an English translation (via GPT-5.4). Read the original Hebrew version.

What does the Rabbi think about this claim as proof of divine providence in the merit of Torah study?

Question

https://youtu.be/d2EgU5zcd_w?t=24240
A claim made by Rabbi Pindrus in the Knesset yesterday.

Answer

Please post the claim itself if you want to discuss it.

Discussion on Answer

The Secretary (2020-12-22)

I wonder: if the Rabbi doesn’t have time to watch a 12-hour video, how will he have time to read the claim once someone posts it?

Asaf (2020-12-22)

6:44:15

“On the day the yeshivas started, morbidity began to drop dramatically; when they went on Hanukkah break, morbidity began to rise.”

Kvayfer, God forbid (2020-12-22)

Question: why didn’t the merit of Torah help at the beginning?

The Repeated Elections, So That Public Officials Should Not Stumble by Making Decisions Under a Conflict of Interest (2020-12-22)

With God’s help, 8 Tevet 5781

It does not seem that the merit of the yeshivas brought about the elections, because from the standpoint of Torah study it would have been preferable to draft all the tens of thousands of yeshiva students at once, and then the entire army would turn into one huge yeshiva, and then the secular, the traditional, and the Religious Zionists would no longer have any excuse or pretext to shirk their duty to engage in Torah day and night.

The reason the state has been paralyzed for two years is that the Holy One, blessed be He, does not want public officials to stumble in the grave sin of “breach of trust.”

For after the legal experts innovated that a decision made by a public official for the sake of receiving “favorable coverage” is forbidden because it is made under a “conflict of interest,” we are forced to say that no public official may make any decision at all, because every decision he makes will earn him favorable coverage from one side and sharp criticism from the other side—in plain words: “tainted by criminal conflict of interest.”

So that public officials should not, God forbid, stumble in the criminal offense of “making decisions for the sake of favorable coverage,” the Holy One, blessed be He, arranged elections every few months so that the government would be paralyzed and fail in making no decision that might, Heaven forbid, bring it “favorable coverage,” may the Merciful One spare us.

Best regards, Simcha Fish”l Plankton, commentator on religion and law

Michi (2020-12-22)

I really don’t think this nonsense deserves a response.

And as for the connection between studies and the drop in morbidity—it’s something natural (2020-12-22)

With God’s help, 8 Tevet 5781

There is no need to “prove” God’s providence over His people anew. The miraculous existence of the “sheep” among the wolves seeking to tear it apart for thousands of years is enough to confirm the Creator’s promise through His prophets: “For the Lord will not forsake His people, nor will He abandon His inheritance.”

However, the connection between studies and a drop in morbidity is clear and natural. When students are in an educational framework, they can be supervised and ventilation, mask-wearing, and distancing can be enforced. By contrast, when students are sent home, there is no way to prevent increased infection in crowded homes, or while they roam the streets without any supervision.

Best regards, Yaron Fish”l Corinaldi

Kobi (2020-12-22)

And what about the rise in morbidity in March even though the yeshivas and kollels were operating?

A Reminder of Forgotten Facts (to Kobi) (2020-12-22)

To Kobi—greetings,

In Adar, the entire economy and the education system were operating without restriction. After Purim they began imposing restrictions. The economy operated under limits, and only the education system was sent on break a week before it would anyway have gone on Passover vacation.

Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky objected to this, based on the simple reasoning that Torah study is no less important than businesses remaining open under restrictions, but the state forced the yeshivas to close, and within a short time a general lockdown was imposed on the economy and everything was under lockdown.

In Iyar they began reopening the economy with restrictions, and then the yeshivas also opened under the “capsule” framework, similar to what was done in the army. This framework included separation into small groups, severe limits on students’ leaving, and coronavirus tests for all students at the beginning and end of the term—something not done in any other sector.

The “second wave” began in September, and in my humble opinion was caused by the “summer vacation” and the yeshiva recess of July and August. In the yeshivas, the Elul term—during the vast majority of the yeshiva period—passed with almost complete success. In a small minority, about 10% of yeshivas that apparently did not properly observe distancing, the students had to go to “corona hotels” instead of home.

This proved that careful observance of distancing in educational institutions is effective and practical. Therefore Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky and Rabbi Gershon Edelstein insisted that the educational institutions and yeshivas be opened under the framework agreed upon with the Ministry of Health, and only for political reasons was this not approved by the government.

The insistence of the great Torah sages accelerated the opening of all educational institutions, religious and secular alike, as Education Minister Yoav Gallant demanded. And lo and behold, the “experts’” horror scenarios did not materialize. Common sense says that in an educational framework it is easier to observe health requirements than in a state of neglect where children wander around with no possibility of supervision or control.

Best regards, Yaron Fish”l Ordner

What should have been done, however, when the economy and the education system were reopened, was to double the number of buses in public transportation so that passengers would not be packed into each bus like sardines, and thus be more likely to infect one another.

But in that it’s hard to blame the policymakers, who apparently haven’t ridden public transportation in thirty or forty years. And as a regular user of public transportation, I’m not allowed to judge them unfavorably as long as “I haven’t reached their place” and have neither a private car nor a company car 🙂

Best regards, Yosef Zvi Bidani Levi-Trumpist

Correction (2020-12-22)

Paragraph 4, line 2
… in the great majority of the yeshivas…

Doron (2020-12-22)

Maybe we can open a yeshiva in the holy community of Umm al-Fahm for the sake of public health? I heard morbidity there is on the rise.

All the More So (to Doron) (2020-12-22)

To Doron—greetings,

If in Bnei Brak, whose population density is more than 27,000 people per square kilometer (!), they managed to bring down morbidity—then all the more so this can be done in Umm al-Fahm, whose population density is ten times lower…

The framework for success is strict attention to ventilation, small groups, mask-wearing, and maintaining distance between people. A call by the religious leaders in Umm al-Fahm to their community to observe these conditions (as the rabbis of Bnei Brak instructed their own community) could certainly help.

And as I mentioned, it is also important that the government double the number of buses in public transportation, so that people are not crammed into buses like sardines.

With the blessing of “protection and healing … and relief and deliverance,” Shams Razal, Qubbat al-Najma.

Corrections (to the density figures) (2020-12-23)

Paragraph 1, line 1
If in Bnei Brak, whose population density is about 28,000 people per square kilometer…

There, line 3
… in Umm al-Fahm, whose population density is thirteen times lower…

And One More Thing Regarding the Comparison (2020-12-23)

Among the Haredim there were higher percentages of infection than in the general population, as would be expected given the high density, but even during that period the rate of severe cases and deaths was lower than in the general population.

The experts who tried to explain this suggest that because the percentage of children in Haredi society is high, more Haredim contracted the virus in a weakened form, and their mild infection created an effect of partial “herd immunity.” See Rabbi Zamir Cohen’s video “On Haredim and Corona,” part 2, on the Hidabroot website.

Seemingly, the situation in Arab society, where the percentage of children is also high, and yet “herd immunity” did not develop and the percentage of both mild and severe cases is higher than in the general population, refutes the experts’ claim that a high percentage of children causes “herd immunity.”

Therefore, in my humble opinion, one must say that the lower rate of severe illness among the Haredim, and the drastic drop in morbidity among them generally in the recent period, stem from relatively greater care in observing the health guidelines (due both to rabbinic instructions and to increased police enforcement…), and this, together with the natural immunity enhanced by children, brought about the improvement in the situation. And as I mentioned above, students being in a supervised educational framework is preferable from the health standpoint as well.

Another factor which, in my humble opinion, caused a drastic reduction in severe morbidity among the Haredim is the treatment given to moderately ill patients by doctors at home, which prevents hospitalization in the overflowing corona wards in hospitals. Treatment that does not remove the patient from the family and community framework is more effective.

The advantage of the Haredim and their Torah leadership lies in combining a serious attitude toward health experts with the ability to exercise critical thinking that can also seek “outside-the-box” solutions.

Best regards, Simcha Fish”l Plankton

Correction (2020-12-23)

Paragraph 4, line 3
… both from the rabbis’ instructions and…

And Again an Upward Trend? (2020-12-23)

With God’s help, 8 Tevet 81

Meanwhile, Prof. Segal from the Weizmann Institute reports that infection rates in the Haredi public have begun to rise significantly again. He writes that the reason must be investigated: is this due to behavioral changes, perhaps the days of Hanukkah, or perhaps a new mutation against which the partial immunity achieved is ineffective? (See the article “The Doubling Rate in the Haredi Public Reaches a Peak.”)

In my humble opinion there may be two reasons for the renewed spread of infection:

A. The rush to Dubai as a place for tourism and even for weddings. And in the “United Arab Emirates,” as is well known, they live in peace with corona 🙂

B. The cancellation of the restriction on passenger density on buses. Instead of doubling the number of buses, they decided to remove the density limits on buses, and when passengers are packed in like sardines, what wonder is it that infection increases?

Best regards, Yosef Zvi Bidani Levi-Trumpist

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