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Q&A: The Layers Method

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The Layers Method

Question

Hello Rabbi,
Following what you wrote about Prof. David Halivni, attached is an article on the Layers Method that I wrote close to 20 years ago when I was working at Bar-Ilan on developing the method. Part of the article was published in one of the issues of Tzohar. By the way, the article includes a note on hermeneutics in which I made use of an article you wrote in the journal of Beit Morasha.
For your consideration. I would be happy to hear your comments.
Blessings for a peaceful Sabbath,
Yehoshua David Elyashiv

Answer

Hello,
 
I read the article, and I’ll write a few comments that came to me while reading it. Let me just preface that these are mainly critical comments, since that is the nature of a critical review. That does not mean I disagree with the method or think it has no value. I noted that from time to time.
 
0. I should begin by saying that I do not share the substantive criticisms of the method, and certainly not its presentation as something that contradicts fear of Heaven. In my opinion, that is nonsense. I am not even bothered by the fact that this is a departure from traditional learning (which you try to deny). If it is true, then it is true, although I understand that polemically this is not a successful approach, because the public is conservative and attached to tradition. In my view, the matter should be examined on two planes, and those alone: a. Are the method’s assumptions correct? (For example, you surely know better than I do that there is controversy regarding the anonymous Talmudic layer, though you correctly noted that this is not very important to the method itself.) b. Is it didactically and pedagogically useful?
1. Therefore, the sources you brought from the medieval authorities and later authorities are not important to me. They do not deal with usefulness or correctness, but with legitimacy—namely, that this is not a deviation from the traditional path.
Even so, it is important to me to note that for this purpose these sources are exceptional. I assume you are not claiming that in earlier generations they learned this way and understood the Talmud this way. That claim would be incorrect. True, one can find fragments of such arguments in earlier sources as well. But as I said, this is not important to me, because I have no problem with the legitimacy of the method. I saw that later on you address this, and see my comments at the end of section 6.
2. Although I have no pedagogical experience with younger students, from my impression I do not think the problem in students’ attitude toward the Talmud stems from the fact that they are not developing systematic skills. In mathematics and physics too, they do not develop this; they simply study mathematics and physics. They are certainly not taught independent learning abilities in mathematics and physics. In my opinion, this attitude stems from a feeling of irrelevance, from a lack of intellectual challenge, and of course also from the lack of esteem given to this field (fear of Heaven).
I would add that in general, quite apart from pedagogical considerations, I do not believe in systematicity in Talmud study, but rather in plunging into the thick of it without introductions and definitions, until one learns to swim. The Talmud is built in a non-systematic and very associative way, and in my opinion not by accident. Therefore its study, too, should be done in that manner. And I say this as someone who deals quite a bit with method and Talmudic methodology. In my eyes, if anything, this is a matter for experts and not for beginners. Your discussion is in the pedagogical domain and not the essential one, and this comment touches both pedagogy and essence.
3. In the end, the division into layers is a framework. The substantive learning of the reasoning and assumptions at each stage is supposed to take place in the classroom even if one does not adopt the Layers Method, and generally today it does not really take place. Therefore I doubt how much the technical division of the passage can contribute to improving the dismal results in attitudes toward the Talmud. But of course this is something that can be tested, and I am writing here only an a priori assumption of mine.
4. After studying the Mishnah, you propose dealing with comparisons to the rest of tannaitic literature. Here too I doubt whether that is pedagogically correct. My impression is that it is preferable to study the Talmud from within itself as an organic whole (of the editor, if you like), if only because that is how it was generally done in the past. Side comparisons take the student out of Talmudic thinking before he has even begun to understand it itself. After understanding the way the Talmud itself relates to the Mishnah, one can go back and make comparisons to parallel tannaitic sources and see what the Talmud assumed and why. As noted, I do not have pedagogical experience or expertise, so this comment is my own intuition. It is possible I am wrong and the field says otherwise.
5. The examples on pp. 29–30 are of course isolated. You preface them by saying that our rabbis “frequently” made such comments. But that is a tendentious and inaccurate description of the situation. As I said, I understand the polemical need for this, although in my opinion it is unnecessary. As far as I am concerned, even if our rabbis did not do this, if it is correct then it should be done. But if one wants or needs to engage polemically, one should not exaggerate in describing the phenomenon in traditional literature. In traditional literature these comments are entirely negligible. It is like saying that our rabbis frequently commented on the wording of the biblical text, and then bringing Ibn Ezra’s and Sefer Hasidim’s comments on a few words in the entire Bible. In note 38 you refer to Spiegel, who brings about a hundred such places. One hundred is a laughably negligible number relative to the scope of the material and the number of commentators who dealt with it (2,500 folio pages packed with material, on which there are many hundreds of commentators—so multiply the number of passages by the number of commentators and you will see how much of a minor joke 100 places really is). The impression you are trying to create is as though this were a common phenomenon. It simply is not.
6. The same applies to the distinctions already made by the medieval authorities between named statements and the anonymous Talmudic layer. Here too, the phenomenon in the literature of the medieval and later authorities is really not broad, and I would not draw from it the conclusions accepted by scholars in our day (such as Halivni). That is taking things out of context. See note 49, where two examples are brought, while above you write that the Tosafists “especially developed the method.” That seems very exaggerated to me. Likewise in note 52 regarding the Spanish medieval authorities and the Geonim. As I said, in my opinion this is not necessary to the matter itself, because if it is true then it should be done even without the medieval authorities having done so. But polemics should be honest. It would have been better to write something like: there are several examples of this in the medieval authorities, from which it follows that the method itself is legitimate and does not contradict our tradition, and therefore we allow ourselves to expand it greatly.
I will note that on p. 50, in section C of the critique, you brought this claim (that these are sporadic examples), and you answer it. But your presentation is still not accurate. You present a picture as though this had been the main road among the medieval authorities, and it was not. It would be better to admit honestly that it was not, and explain why you nevertheless think it is right to do this today (for the reasons you mentioned). I also think there is one main reason you did not dwell on, and again this is probably for polemical reasons. After all, the main rationale for using the method is not pedagogical, but the conviction that this really is the structure of the Talmud—that this is the correct way to study it. But this is a modern insight בעקבות academic research, which did not exist in the period of the medieval and later authorities. For some reason, in answering the criticism there about deviating from the medieval authorities’ way of learning, you respond with technical and pedagogical distinctions, and ignore the elephant in the room: the entirely legitimate disagreement with the medieval authorities over whether this way is really correct. I understand that polemically this is problematic, because the public is conservative, but that is the truth.
7. The ways of distinguishing between the parts of the passage (amoraim and anonymous editors, a statement and additions to it, etc.) are excellent. It is certainly important to teach this to students and to their teachers as well. But I think this part does not depend on the overall conception of the Layers Method. It can be accepted even by opponents. As you rightly wrote on p. 44, the lateness of the anonymous layer is not important to your method, so it is a shame to enter into controversy over it.
8. Academic scholars have a tendency to adopt a research solution too quickly (through layering the passage), whereas traditionally sages prefer an analytic, lomdus-style solution (like what I described regarding my debate with Halivni on the passage of “enough” in Bava Kamma). One can argue about this, but you take it for granted that a departure from the plain interpretation requires a layered explanation. I do not agree with that as a sweeping rule, though of course sometimes it can be correct. For example, I wrote an article on forced interpretive readings, also in Akdamot, and there I showed that such a reading is not at all a departure from the plain interpretation. One of the dangers I see in the Layers Method is bypassing the need for analytic resolutions to difficulties and escaping into layering. Sometimes that is indeed unnecessary because the layered solution is compelling, but sometimes it is simply the easier route, and the student will get used to preferring it over analytic thinking. That certainly is not what was done throughout the generations, and I also think that in many cases that was justified.
9. What is quoted in my words in note 82—I no longer hold by that today, at least not with the same force. The assumption of structuralist divine inspiration seems exaggerated to me today. Interpretation should indeed try to enter into the meaning of the text being interpreted (of course it does not always succeed). Otherwise, anyone can do whatever he wants with the text and put into it whatever his heart desires.
By the way, if you do not accept this, that undermines the ground beneath your own method, since you make comparisons between sources and thereby try to understand what the author meant. According to the thesis of divine inspiration, one should view the text as it stands before us as an organic text, regardless of whether it is such and whether it was such originally, and whether we are in fact hitting the author’s intention.
10. It is true that sometimes an idea is inserted into the wording of the Mishnah that apparently was not its original intention, because there are parallel sources that seem to the amora to fit the Jewish law better, and he tries to preserve the canonicity of the Mishnah. That is an argument I do accept, but it should be used sparingly, only where there is no other solution.
11. The citations from the approach of the Vilna Gaon and Rabbi Menashe of Ilya (around p. 46) were discussed in my polemic with Henshke regarding forced interpretive readings, contradiction, and more (in the bulletin of the hesder yeshiva in Yeruham). The presentation as though the Vilna Gaon’s method has no commitment to original intent is, in my opinion, greatly exaggerated.
12. I missed a discussion of the dispute between the sages of Ashkenaz (Tosafot) and the sages of Spain, as Maharshal describes it, that Tosafot “made the Talmud into a ball.” I think this touches the core of your method. Though in my opinion he too exaggerates in describing the Spanish method, since they also did not simply break apart and separate passages except in rather rare cases. They too resolved difficulties and harmonized between passages. And in general, your remarks do not address the question of the relationship between parallel passages—whether to harmonize them or not.
13. The examples you brought at the end are definitely interesting. They demonstrate the pedagogical value of the method. But I felt two things were missing there: a. an indication of methods among the medieval and later authorities whose rulings and interpretations do not fit your layering. Honesty requires showing that as well. b. to show how layering solves analytic problems, and on the other hand how analytic solutions can render layering unnecessary—as with those medieval authorities I wrote about that you did not bring. Filling in these gaps could be persuasive regarding the value of layering, despite the polemical price of course (since you are seemingly arguing against the methods of some of the medieval and later authorities and claiming that their lomdus is unnecessary because layering solves their problems).
 
In conclusion, I will say again that a substantial part of my comments are not important in my personal view, since they deal with the form of the polemic against the critics and not with the essence. Since I do not share the conservative criticism (which assumes that there is an obligation to adhere to tradition and to traditional forms of learning), I also do not see a need to resort to polemics. But assuming one is engaging polemically—and practically there is probably no choice, because conservatism does matter to people—then one should be careful not to take the quotations and sources out of proportion. That creates a feeling of unreliability. Personally, I would base the method on its correctness and not on the claim that this is how people learned throughout the generations, but I am aware that polemically this may not work well (unfortunately there is a strong conservative tendency among learners. See my comments at the end of section 6).
To conclude, I will only say that my main criticism of the method, both pedagogical and essential, is what I wrote in section 8. This is a criticism that is easy to fix and does not harm the main principles of the method, which, as I said, I do not oppose in principle, and its pedagogical success should be tested in the field. Note that the meaning of this criticism is that one really needs to improve learning on the analytic plane, so that it will pose a challenge to students. Whether one wraps this in a framework of layering or not is, in my opinion, a less important question. In this respect, I definitely accept advantage B on your p. 58, where you wrote that layering can help a student who has difficulty understanding the structure of the passage, and this is regardless of the historical and editorial assumptions of the method.

 

More power to you, and much success.

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