Q&A: A story about the Chazon Ish giving advice for surgery, and the topic in general — the brain
A story about the Chazon Ish giving advice for surgery, and the topic in general — the brain
Question
I would appreciate your opinion on this topic and on similar topics.
Answer
True, I haven’t checked it in depth, but a priori I assume this is some bizarre nonsense spread by foolish devotees. The sketch that was published proves nothing. It’s just a collection of lines, which could just as well be a drawing by my kid from kindergarten, and there’s no visible connection to a brain. And even if it did mean something, who was the doctor and what did he do with it? And if he did something, what were the results? And even if all of that is true, there is testimony that the Chazon Ish learned these things from medical books. And finally, according to his own approach, it’s quite clear that he wouldn’t give stupid instructions like that, but would leave such matters to the experts. In short, there is far too much missing here to try to infer anything from it. And because of my general distrust of these tall tales, I wouldn’t invest a gram of energy in checking this story.
Discussion on Answer
To Uri,
There is a Jew in Bnei Brak named Rabbi David Bloch. He served as head of Yeshivat Derekh Chaim, the Midrasha, and more.
He lives on Rashbam Street (the center of the kasbah).
For many years he studied in chavruta with one of the heads of Slabodka Yeshiva, Rabbi Natan Schulman (who passed away a few years ago).
Rabbi Natan Schulman was, most likely, the chavruta of the Chazon Ish and was with him in the room when the question about the brain came up.
He wrote and published, while he was still alive, that the story is unequivocally not true.
There was some discussion there and the like, no more than that.
A person does not know what he has not learned.
If it’s hard for you to travel all the way to Rashbam Street in Bnei Brak, I’ll attach Rabbi Bloch’s phone number.
0544629488 Rabbi David Bloch.
A forged diagram with the Chazon Ish’s handwriting..
Also, from the book it’s clear they are truthful people, since they apparently wrote Professor So-and-so…
Please write the phone number, thanks.
Who is “he”? I sent a question to Rabbi David.
Rabbi David Bloch published in his bulletin “Drops of Sanity” the testimony of his chavruta Rabbi Natan Schulman of blessed memory, already during Rabbi Natan Schulman’s lifetime, when he had been there in the room with the Chazon Ish (Rabbi Natan Schulman was the chavruta of the Chazon Ish, and later of Rabbi David Bloch), and the story as people spread it simply never happened.
They asked something, maybe he looked into it and gave a blessing, and that’s all, nothing more.
A person never knows what he has not learned.
The truth is that the Chazon Ish theoretically could also have known what he had never learned.
And theoretically he knew how to operate the drivers’ Rav-Kav machine without learning, and also theoretically knew how to engineer airplanes…
All the more so, theoretically he knew brain research.
So why in reality didn’t he know?
Because although he was a righteous man, since he supported Agudat Yisrael,
but his father was among the leading rabbis of Mizrachi, therefore as a punishment from Heaven he did not know what theoretically he was supposed to know without learning.
And as is well known, the knowledge of a righteous man son of a righteous man is not like that of a righteous man son of…
It can’t be that the Chazon Ish didn’t know what he hadn’t learned because his father was one of the rabbis of Mizrachi abroad (where Mizrachi, “as is known,” are worse than secular people), for the simple reason that it is written: “Fathers shall not be put to death because of sons, nor sons because of fathers.” All the more so, they should not suddenly fail to know what they weren’t supposed to know because of their father’s sins, however severe those sins may have been.
Rather, it must be said that the Chazon Ish did not know what he wasn’t supposed to know anyway (since he hadn’t learned it), apparently because of the sin of his brother Rabbi Meir Karelitz, who was among the rabbis of Poalei Agudat Yisrael. (And “as is known,” Poalei Agudat Yisrael is worse than the Mizrachi crowd, which is worse than outright secular people.)
And now it makes perfect sense why the Chazon Ish did not know what he was not supposed to know…
If the incident never happened at all — how can a person testify that he was with the Chazon Ish at the time of the incident that never happened?
With blessings, UFO
I received an answer from Rabbi David Bloch. Waiting for his approval, and then I’ll publish it.
To “Simple question”:
In the bulletin “Drops of Sanity,” I think that while Rabbi Natan Schulman was still alive, it said that they did indeed speak about it with the Chazon Ish, asked for a blessing or something routine like that, consulted and so on.
But there was no extraordinary expertise of the Chazon Ish in that field or anything of the sort.
Just inflation with no basis…
I received permission to publish. Here is Rabbi David Bloch’s reply:
Indeed, that is correct. He told me that he was present [or another person was], and there was an ethical question there. A question had been put before him: one form of surgery would cause certain blindness, but had a much higher chance of prolonging the patient’s life; whereas a second route might not cause blindness, but had a lower percentage chance of prolonging the patient’s life, and a decision had to be made as to which was preferable. The Chazon Ish met with the surgeon and asked to know more [the Chazon Ish, as is known, was fond of medicine and had medical books in Russian at home]. During the discussion, the Chazon Ish or the doctor sketched the brain or the possible surgical routes, and from there came the diagram of the brain surgery — as though the Chazon Ish had shown the doctor how to operate.
I heard this from Rabbi Natan Schulman of blessed memory himself, when the entire conversation was about “miracles” of the Chazon Ish, and he said to me in these words: I was with the Chazon Ish no less than others [there was a period when he even slept in his home], and I never saw any miracle from him. Rather, his wisdom was great, and therefore his answers sometimes amazed people so much that they were sure his answers came straight from the mouths of angels in direct conversations. And when I asked him, “And what about the brain story?” he raised his voice decisively: the Chazon Ish did not understand surgeries and did not draw anything to explain how to operate.
It seems to me that you are not surprised to read this.
I wrote back to him that indeed I was not surprised. He then added the following story as well (which also probably never happened):
I will add an amusing story that Rabbi Natan told me, which he heard from his father, who heard it from his father, in that same conversation. One day Rabbi Chaim came to the religious court in Brisk and asked them what they thought of the following story that he had heard a few minutes earlier from a certain Jew:
A man named So-and-so from the city of Warsaw, from Such-and-such Street, number such-and-such, had for many years not been blessed with children. They advised him to go to the Rebbe…, and behold, exactly one year after he had been to the Rebbe, his wife conceived, thank God. “What do you think?” Rabbi Chaim asked.
One judge said, “Nonsense — she probably also went to doctors during that period.” A second judge argued, “Psychologically, she had confidence because of the Rebbe’s promise; that helped her conceive.”
The head of the court, the gaon Rabbi Simcha Zelig Riger of blessed memory, was dozing a little. Rabbi Chaim nudged him and asked, “So, Rabbi Simcha Zelig, what do you say?” With one eye half-open he said to Rabbi Chaim: “I don’t believe there is any such street in Warsaw at all.” Rabbi Chaim smiled: “That’s exactly what I meant.” [As usual, in Yiddish it’s better.]
About 20 years ago, Yated Ne’eman devoted an entire Sabbath supplement to the Chazon Ish
and interviewed Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky…
The reporter brought up lots of miracle stories about the Chazon Ish, and Rabbi Chaim rejected them one by one, didn’t leave even a single hair standing…
It didn’t happen, it never existed, it’s just ordinary wisdom, and this is an explicit Talmudic passage — like this to right and left, like the greatest heretics: no miracle, no wonder, nothing.
Gornisht, zero, nada.
He just learned Torah and was wise…
Interesting, though, that it was printed in Yated in black on gray.
What is the “Drops of Sanity” bulletin, and what kind of style does it have? And if possible, a link or picture. Interesting name..
Thank you, Rabbi Michi, for the thorough clarification.
So there was a discussion, and the Chazon Ish understood medicine from the books that were in his house and also from the wisdom of Torah, and the Chazon Ish wrote in his own handwriting that he drew the sketch..
A clarification that was not thorough at all, as befits this nonsense. And its conclusions are light-years away from your optimistic description. But a person sees only what his heart’s thoughts lead him to see.
With all due respect, that also applies to you: a person sees only what his heart’s thoughts lead him to see. Your tendency is to dismiss things of this sort, and that affects your responses — unfortunately.
Look at what you yourself wrote… that he had special wisdom. Quoting: “Rather, his wisdom was great, and therefore his answers sometimes amazed people so much that they were sure his answers came straight from the mouths of angels in direct conversations.”
Where did he get special wisdom from?
Adding: a person needs to open up intellectually and emotionally, because there are spiritual worlds, and a person loses out by not opening up to them.
The story with the Rabbi Chaim interview that you brought about the street may be a nice story with a message, but on the other hand, if we block ourselves off on principle, it backfires in many good areas. By the way, atheists take that same skepticism even to Mount Sinai and so on; they too would mock in this style. Therefore it’s important to develop openness, and also to be critical in some measure.
Referring to other topics that were discussed here.
The testimony written in the book says that the surgery succeeded, and apparently the doctor’s name is written there too.
I didn’t understand why he wouldn’t give advice if he understood something about the matter… he still left room for the doctor’s decision, as was written.
As for the diagram, maybe it’s meaningful to someone who understands these things..