Q&A: The Needless Debate Between Theists and Atheists
The Needless Debate Between Theists and Atheists
Question
Hello Rabbi Michi,
Do you think the atheist-theist debate is pointless? Theists speak מתוך a sense of community and religious experiences. And atheists speak with test tubes in hand and an Excel spreadsheet open to record the findings, and as far as I know, you can’t measure personal experiences with scientific tools…
Answer
A strange claim. If believers are only reporting experiences, then there is no debate at all—not just no point in having one. If I tell you that I love so-and-so, and you don’t love him or think it’s wrong to love him, do we have a debate? I love him. That’s a psychological fact. A debate exists only when you are making a claim about reality. Therefore, if the believer sees his personal experiences as an indication that God really exists, then claims that show he is mistaken are relevant claims and he should address them. If he sees them as merely his own subjective experiences—then there is no debate at all. In fact, such a believer is also an atheist, just one with experiences.
And in general, your assumption that every believer is basing himself on inner experiences is itself probably an inner experience of your own. In my case, it is based on arguments and reasoning. And in my opinion, someone who thinks there is no God is mistaken. And there is definitely point in having a debate about that.
Discussion on Answer
I don’t know who a methodological atheist is or what those tools are (the same as what?). But yes, in my opinion there are good arguments that prove His existence.
The tools of the methodological atheist are scientific experiments (Excel spreadsheets, test tubes, etc.), so how can you measure God that way, for example?
You can’t.
He means that you can use rational arguments to prove the existence of God. Of course they’re not comparable to a laboratory test, but they’re good enough to conduct a debate with, because these aren’t claims coming from emotion but from reason. Hope I clarified the point 🙂
Punk, I didn’t understand what experiments, spreadsheets, and test tubes have to do with anything. Can you measure “lack of God” with them?
Y.V., what does that have to do with it?
I said that this is how a methodological atheist examines a claim about reality.
So a debate with an atheist is pointless from the outset.
The atheist does not measure the absence of God with experiments, spreadsheets, and test tubes, because God is usually defined in a way that is not open to empirical research.
Both a theist and an atheist can discuss metaphysical questions in a methodological way, as long as they are consistent.
What? You think it’s possible to prove God using the same tools and language as the methodological atheist?