Q&A: The Justification for Israel
The Justification for Israel
Question
Thousands of deaths in Gaza may not be our fault, because Hamas uses them as a human shield and there is no choice, etc. But what is the justification for our continuing to exist here if that requires such a moral price of mass harm to innocent people? There are safer places for Jews in the world, so why keep insisting on our right to a nation-state in this land? And if there is such a justification—is it necessarily religious?
Answer
I never understood this ridiculous self-righteousness. We want to live here. We have murderous neighbors who like to kill themselves and murder their own friends. So because of that we’re supposed to get out of here? Anyone who threatens me, I kill him. That’s all. It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or religiosity. The same would be true for Belgians in Belgium.
Discussion on Answer
That’s a sensible answer for someone who was born here and is only defending himself and his relatives without historical calculations. But what about those who created this reality in the first place—if, theoretically, the founders of the state had known with certainty that the price of its existence here would involve endless wars and the occupation of a foreign people, would their choice to do so in order to realize their right to self-determination, rather than living quietly in the United States for example, have been morally justified?
The founders of the state are already dead
With God’s help, 2 Av 5784
To Bezalel — greetings,
We tried to be accepted as citizens with equal rights in enlightened Europe. It ended in the Holocaust. In the Islamic lands we were persecuted. In Africa and Asia they don’t want us. And in America too antisemitism has begun to intensify. Maybe we should try Antarctica? There too they’ll probably demand the penguins’ rights 🙂
We have no other land…
Best regards, Fish”l
I explained what I had to explain. We came here and purchased land legally. There was no other government here. They decided to murder and fight, and they have to bear the consequences. I do not see in this even the slightest trace of a problem. And anyone who does see one is simply crooked.
According to the Rabbi’s explanation, the conclusion is that the Irgun and Lehi had no justification at all for their activity against the British
This discussion is becoming more and more bizarre. So I’ll stop here.
I’d be glad to get even a single word explaining why you frame the discussion as “bizarre.”
I think a lot of people, as individuals, are looking for a reason—not a religious-faith-based one—to continue living here instead of moving to safer places.
Not because of the humanitarian self-righteousness that opened the discussion, but rather: why make such an effort and take such risks—what for?
The explanation that was given is perhaps a bit too simplistic
That is a completely different question. The previous questions dealt with morality, and they are bizarre. I see no need to explain things that are so simple.
The reason is that I feel like living here. If you don’t feel like it, then there is no reason to live here. That’s all.
What do you mean by “we want to live here,” just because we feel like it??
Obviously they will interpret this as a foreign occupation, and as such it should be met with aggression.
If someone entered your home just because he wanted to, and refused to leave, wouldn’t you use every means against him?
Maybe they like to murder, but in their view you are giving them a good reason