Q&A: Pornography
Pornography
Question
A- I observe Torah and commandments (even Haredi, even a rabbi), but I’m very drawn to “full nudity” sites. I feel that overcoming this is basically like being insane, or I don’t know what would happen. The moment I satisfy my desire, I’m calm for a very long time. By now, when I see porn sites, it doesn’t even really stir my organ anymore, and I feel generally less tense than I used to when I was more guarded.
And our Sages already said: what should a person do when his inclination overpowers him?… let him do what his heart desires.
B- The question is also whether there is more room for leniency when it is only viewing through a screen.
C- In general I feel I have an intensified desire for this, much more than the regular average person.
I also very much desire a “mistress,” a halakhic concubine. (I have no idea how I would do that in my social position, but it’s clear to me that if the opportunity came my way, I wouldn’t miss it.) And that is in addition to the fact that my wife is not at all to my liking in personality (we already have 7 children), which adds grief upon grief for me and a terrible sense of loneliness, and I fantasize about some “dream girl.” It should be noted that ever since I broke through the filter and wandered around those sites, I’ve been much calmer than I was before, but still.
D- Just out of curiosity, what do you think about homosexuals? Is it really a matter of “better be killed, go insane, whatever it takes, but don’t do it,” or is there some room for flexibility and change there too?
As stated, I’d be glad for a response here.
Answer
Hello,
A. This is a question for a psychologist, not for me. Maybe it would be worth going for counseling.
In any case, one should be careful not to demonize these acts. It is forbidden, but it is not the destruction of life. People have desires and impulses, and they need to be managed.
Rabbi Ilai’s guidance is of course not a halakhic permit. I’ve discussed this at length in several places.
B. I think definitely yes.
C. That is much worse than ejaculation and various sites. It will damage the family relationship. If you’ve reached the conclusion that you want to break things up, then break it up directly, not like this. Maybe marriage counseling would help, and perhaps sexual counseling too.
D. Obviously! What does that have to do with me? That is what Jewish law requires. But what Jewish law requires is unrelated to the question of how I relate to them. This is a trial that is almost impossible to withstand, and all the smart-alecks who think they know better than everyone else would not withstand it themselves. Therefore they are very close to being under duress (in my opinion it really is duress, as the Talmud says in Ketubot 33b regarding ongoing suffering over time: “Had they flogged Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, they would have worshipped the idol”). By the way, your impulse is somewhat similar, although in your case you do have bread in your basket, and it would be worthwhile to use that as a solution. Homosexuals do not.
In general, the right solution to such problems is not calming the impulse down and extinguishing it, but channeling it in permissible directions. There is no value in extinguishing the sexual impulse, and if those sites do that, that is a drawback, not an advantage. The solution is to find it a permissible outlet (with your wife).
Discussion on Answer
I don’t think anyone needs you in order to get ideas like these. Unfortunately, they are available to anyone who wants them. Precisely because of that, I think there is public value in discussing it.
B- The question is whether the prohibition of lustful thoughts is only a prohibition in itself, or whether there is also a concern that it may lead to a forbidden act. With a picture there is less concern of that sort. And by simple reasoning, desire for a woman is more severe than desire for a picture. Beyond “do not stray,” there is also “and you shall guard yourself from every evil thing.” A proof for this is what Rabbenu Yonah and others wrote: that there is a difference between gazing at a married woman (which is Torah-level) and gazing at an unmarried woman (which is from the words of the Prophets).
Regarding Rabbi Ilai, see column 555 on my site: https://mikyab.net/posts/80277/
And also in the article: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwJAdMjYRm7IY0xlc1dmYTMweVE
And also in this thread: https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%A1%D7%AA%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%A7%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94-%D7%9B%D7%93%D7%99/
Demonization means treating something beyond its proper proportions (“demon” meaning an evil spirit).
Take into account that publishing things like this can give people ideas or legitimacy to browse such sites, which are insanely addictive, and you’ve acted as your wisdom dictated because you are a wise man, and that’s why I turned to you and not to a psychologist.
Personally, after I browsed every possible site and went all the way down to the depths of the great abyss, to the nethermost pit and below it, I feel much better, calmer, more comfortable, and with less impulse. (By the way, a lot of what made me curious and aroused was various statements of the Sages, such as about the people of Barbary and Africa who walk around naked in the street, or the people of the generation of the Flood. That drove me crazy at a certain age—what, there are really such things?—and I dug around on the internet… and from one thing to another, all within the same topic, I got there to all kinds of harmful and sweet things.)
The fact that I want a hidden mistress is because I so deeply long for a pleasant relationship with someone whose personality fits mine (which sadly I did not merit with my wife; personality is personality, what can you do). To divorce after 20 years is not really feasible, and I also wouldn’t live well with myself hurting her and the children like that. It’s not for nothing that a man was permitted more than one wife, and the Vilna Gaon wanted to abolish Rabbenu Gershom’s ban, and it’s not for nothing that the Yaavetz wrote that this prohibition causes evils and sins; he also spoke about a concubine.
And even if only for a time, just as these sites—even if they disappeared entirely tomorrow (amen, may it be so)—have already given me what I needed, it could be that in the past I desired a mistress/concubine because of lust, but these sites definitely satisfied me and calmed my impulse. So what remains for me, the desire for an additional sweet young woman, is not necessarily lust; rather, you know, there is no feeling and pleasure greater than love with someone who suits your spirit. But here clearly there’s nothing you can provide me with, since you’re not a pimp. But just as an aside, I poured out my soul and my bitter spirit, which presumably many sufferers from this share.
B- What do you mean that you definitely think yes? Give a bit of reasoning and evidence. “Do not stray after your heart and your eyes” is not the red heifer, so what difference does it make whether it’s real or through a screen?
C- I addressed that above.
D- Again, the bread in my basket does not give even remotely what porn and full nudity sites give, and she also cannot give it. It’s a Muslim paradise of 72,000 virgins and non-virgins, in every variation you never even dreamed of. It’s unbelievable that such things exist. You’ve surely seen surveys of how many people consume this, even ordinary people…. (They really need to pass a law to make it disappear; it can be a bottomless pit, but on the other hand… as stated.)
I’m interested in where you wrote about Rabbi Ilai, and also what you meant by the word “demonization.”
Thanks, and happy holiday.