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Paradox of the Surprise Quiz: A Continuation (Column 603)

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Originally published:
This is an English translation (originally created with ChatGPT 5 Thinking). Read the original Hebrew version.

Dedicated to my children: Shlomi, Yosef, and Rivka

In column 601 I discussed the surprise quiz paradox, and my conclusion was that the claim it attacks is in fact not true. From this I went on to distinguish between two types of solutions to paradoxes—rejecting the argument and rejecting the claim—and the column’s takeaway was that it’s important to keep in mind the possibility that the argument is sound and our position is the one that’s mistaken. That’s a lesson against our tendency toward dogmatism. I was very pleased to receive yesterday a question that made use of this recommendation.

Now, in one of the comments to that column, David raised a question that wouldn’t let me rest. It forced me to apply my recommendation from that column and not dig in on my own proposal. I realized I needed to return to the solution I offered there, since my handling of the paradox was at best partial. In this column I discharge that obligation.

The paradox and the second type of solution

The teacher comes to his students and announces that on one of the mornings of the coming week there will be a surprise quiz. The students begin to think about this announcement and conclude that such a quiz is impossible. On Shabbat it certainly cannot be held, because if it hasn’t happened until Friday, then on Friday night they will already know it will be held the next day and it won’t surprise them. If so, Shabbat is certainly out. But then we’re back at the same problem, now spanning six days, and the same reasoning repeats: if it hasn’t happened until Thursday, then that evening I already know it will be tomorrow, on Friday. Therefore Friday, too, cannot host a surprise quiz. And so on for Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Monday, and Sunday. In short, a surprise quiz cannot be held.

I wrote that my initial inclination was to look for a flaw in the argument, since it was clear to me that in practice surprise quizzes do occur. The claim is certainly true, and apparently there is some fallacy in the argument. Only I couldn’t find one. The solution usually proposed, which I adopted there, was that under the meaning assumed by the paradox there really is no surprise quiz—namely, no quiz that can surprise us on each of the seven days. One then offers a reconciliation with our intuition that in practice there are surprise quizzes: the teacher’s intention is presumably that a quiz will be held during the coming week and it may (but need not) surprise us. That lets us hold the quiz even on Shabbat (albeit without surprise), and thus the argument that attacks the possibility of a surprise quiz never gets off the ground.

David’s question and its import

But David, in the question above, proposed a surprising formulation of the paradox:

I’d be glad to hear your opinion on the following formulation by the teacher—“I have chosen a day next week to test you, and the quiz will definitely surprise you”. On the one hand, one can rule out each day; on the other hand, the teacher can choose one of the first days and surprise. In this case, is the argument (which excludes the possibility of the quiz) wrong, is the fact (that such a quiz is possible) untrue, or is there a paradox?

In practice, if the teacher chooses one of the first six days, he will indeed surprise us. At first glance this is exactly equivalent to the standard solution presented in the first column. But note that here there is no need to assume that a (non-surprise) quiz could also be held on Shabbat. Even without that assumption, a surprise quiz can still be held on one of the first six days (on the last day it obviously won’t surprise us). Note that the teacher’s announcement does not seem different from the wording I used. Essentially nothing substantive has changed, and yet it turns out that a surprise quiz exists even without assuming the possibility of a quiz on Shabbat. But then why is the argument incorrect? After all, if a quiz cannot be held on Shabbat, the argument would seem to show that it cannot be a surprise on any of the days.

My initial response was that this is not a solution to the paradox. At most it proves that there is a surprise quiz—something I already knew. The question of what is wrong with the argument remains. As long as one has not pointed to a flaw in the argument, the paradox stands. But that is exactly David’s claim. He isn’t offering a solution; he’s arguing that my solution doesn’t solve it. It turns out that in practice there is a surprise quiz—i.e., the claim we rejected is in fact correct. That means we must look for the flaw in the argument itself (a solution of the first type), contrary to what I wrote.

That still leaves room for the second type of solution, since the usual meaning of a surprise quiz—a quiz that can surprise us on any of the seven days—really is excluded. At most, we have here an alternative meaning of “surprise quiz”: a quiz that can surprise us on any of the first six days. Here it seems there’s no need to assume a non-surprise quiz on the seventh day, unlike what I wrote in the first column. But bottom line, we arrive at something new: a teacher can announce a surprise quiz and truly surprise his students (if he chooses one of the first six days).

But note that this alternative meaning is also vulnerable to the paradoxical argument: it certainly cannot occur on Shabbat; therefore not on Friday either, and so on for the rest of the week. David has shown us that at least for this formulation we cannot say the claim is false, since it’s clear that in practice the quiz will surprise us. If so, we’re back to the paradox, and at least for this wording we must seek a first-type solution. Something is defective in the argument. But what?

A de facto solution

In the previous column I wrote that the first thing that occurred to me upon hearing this paradox was a de facto solution: after we’ve proven that each day is impossible, the possibility of surprise returns, because the students then have no way of knowing on which day the quiz will be held. Therefore there is a surprise quiz. But on the face of it, that isn’t a solution; it’s just a restatement of the paradox: on the one hand, in practice a surprise quiz can be held; on the other, there is a valid argument proving otherwise. As long as we haven’t identified the flaw in the argument, we haven’t solved the paradox.

I argued there that there is a solution—namely, there is a flaw in the argument. The flaw is that the argument does not end with excluding the possibility of a surprise quiz on all days; rather, we must continue and say that once we have excluded them all, the possibility of a surprise quiz returns (since all days are on equal footing). And if we again prove that it cannot happen (by the same reasoning), then we get an infinite alternation of proofs that there is and is not a surprise quiz. Since we have no way to stop this chain, we assume it continues without end. In such a situation, the students truly cannot know whether and when the quiz will be held, and therefore it’s clear that they can be surprised (I pointed to a similar argument in column 407). This is a flaw in the original argument, since it stopped too early. If one continues without stopping, one arrives at the conclusion that there is, indeed, a surprise quiz. In the language of computability theory, we can say that a Turing machine computing the quiz date does not halt. It has intermediate states in which it outputs one answer or another, but it keeps going and changes the answers without stopping. Therefore, in practice we have no computation that will finally give us the date of the quiz, and hence, on any of the first six days it will surprise us. This would seem to be a first-type solution, since we have identified a flaw in the argument.

What about shorter durations?

I then examined the same paradox for two and for three days. Let’s check for two days. The teacher announces that the quiz will be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. In that case, the second day (the day after tomorrow) is excluded, so clearly it will be tomorrow. And what if there are three days? Then there are two different days on which the quiz can be held (tomorrow or the day after tomorrow), so apparently there can be a surprise here. But I wrote there that even this is not correct, since on the third day it certainly cannot be held; therefore not on the second day either (because if it isn’t held on day 1, it’s clear it will be on day 2); hence one must prepare for the first day, and then again it’s not a surprise.

But now let’s test the one-day case. The teacher announces: tomorrow there will be a surprise quiz. In that column I assumed this is an oxymoron, since clearly it won’t surprise us. But notice that this isn’t so simple. If it’s an oxymoron, then tomorrow it can’t be held because it wouldn’t surprise us. What, then, prevents the teacher from surprising us and holding it anyway? That is, the surprise can occur precisely because we have a proof that it cannot happen tomorrow—and then we’re surprised. That’s a real surprise: it turns out that even in the one-day case there can be a surprise quiz. Of course, it now follows that the same holds for two days, three days, or a week. The quiz can be held precisely because we have a proof that it cannot be held. That proof lulls us into thinking it cannot happen—and then the surprise lands on us when it does.

So where is the mistake in the argument? For one day, the mistake is in assuming that if it must be held tomorrow it will not surprise us. It can surprise us, because the alternatives are not merely the other days; there is also the possibility that it is not possible at all. Against that possibility one can always be surprised. The same applies to two or three days. The surprise is not against another day but against the possibility that the thing is impossible altogether.

In other words, the formulation I offered above for the flaw in the argument—that because of the proof all days become equal in status and thus one can still be surprised—is inaccurate. The flaw is not that the days are equal to one another, but that there is another possibility I hadn’t considered: that a surprise quiz is impossible. That possibility stands opposite each and every day, and it is what generates the surprise.

Note that, now—surprisingly—the quiz can also be held on the seventh day. For when we reach Friday night we will be convinced that tomorrow it cannot happen because it wouldn’t be a surprise. We will conclude that the teacher was mistaken and cannot give us a surprise quiz. We’ll go to sleep serenely without preparing—and the next day the teacher will spring the quiz on us. Wham!!!

We thus learn that the solution David proposed is equivalent to the solution I proposed. I spoke of a quiz that can surprise on any of the first six days provided it can be held without surprise on the seventh; he spoke of a quiz that can surprise on the first six days even if it cannot be held on the seventh. But we are both wrong: it can be held on the seventh day and still surprise us. There is no need to change anything in the teacher’s announcement. The quiz can be held on any of the seven days and will surprise us on each of them.

Of course, one may now argue that if we reach Friday and think the quiz is impossible, we must take into account the possibility that it will nevertheless be held and will surprise us; therefore we should prepare. But then in fact it cannot be held at all, and there is no point preparing for it. We have reached the Liar Paradox: if the quiz can be held on Shabbat, then on Friday night it will be clear to us that it will be held, and then we won’t be surprised. But that itself means it will not be held (since we were promised a surprise quiz), and so we won’t prepare. But now, if it is held, we will be surprised, and therefore a surprise quiz can indeed be held on Shabbat, and so on ad infinitum. Bottom line, because the loop does not terminate, a quiz held on Shabbat will indeed surprise us (in the sense that we have no prior certainty that it will be held—and also no certainty that it won’t).

A logical formulation: three-valued logic

The Polish logician Jan Łukasiewicz developed a three-valued logic in which every statement can take one of three truth values: true (T), false (F), and paradox (P). Some have wanted to see his logic as a kind of solution to paradoxes, since now, for a sentence like the Liar—“This sentence is false”—we can attach to it one of the two usual values (T or F) only because its true value is really P—and, voilà, problem solved. This is, of course, nonsense. The fact that we’ve named such a state does not solve it in any way. But note that in our case this logic actually does work.

Essentially, what I suggested above is that the statement “There will be a surprise quiz on Shabbat” can take three truth values, not just two. We did our accounting assuming that it is either true or false, but it turns out to be neither. It is paradoxical (its truth value is undefined—if true then false, and if false then true). The upshot is that the surprise quiz paradox is not a content paradox but a logical one, just like the Liar (a statement that, if true, is false, and if false, is true). But, remarkably, here the statement’s being paradoxical solves the paradox, since that very paradoxicality is what generates the surprise. Because what matters here is surprise, the fact that this statement is paradoxical need not trouble us. The truth value of the statement “A surprise quiz can be held on Shabbat” is P—or, if you prefer to remain within ordinary binary logic, say it does not exist—but precisely for that reason, in reality, a quiz on Shabbat can surprise us. One could perhaps speak here of first-order, second-order, and higher-order surprise, or of multi-order truth values of this statement. In the Liar, the problem is the truth value of the statement, so three-valued logic is no solution there. But here the issue is a phenomenon in the world, not the truth value of a statement, and so here the fact that the statement is paradoxical does not get in the way. On the contrary—it underpins the solution. This offers another gloss on my son Shlomi’s distinction cited in column 601 between “mathematical (or logical) reason” and “reason for life.” As we have seen, logic does not necessarily describe life; sometimes life proceeds by different principles.

It turns out there is a phenomenon in the world that cannot be described verbally using statements with fixed (binary) truth values. In the surprise quiz paradox, what matters is the surprise, not the statement’s truth value, and therefore I have no problem here with a paradoxical truth value. So, a surprise quiz can certainly be held in the world, and yet the statement “There will be a surprise quiz tomorrow” (or in the next two days, or in the coming week), which describes that fact, is paradoxical. This is a fascinating conclusion about the relation between language and world, and some would take it to show the limits of our language (I noted in the first column that analytic philosophers think all paradoxes mirror linguistic defects, since paradoxes cannot occur in the world itself).

Another look at logic and life

The conclusion we’ve reached now reminded me of the discussion in column 200 regarding what I dubbed the “logical polygraph.” There I presented a logical analysis showing that there is a question by which one can extract the truth from any person. Suppose I want to know whether X is true (for example, whether he stole money from so-and-so). I ask him the following question: “Will you lie in your answer to this question if and only if X?” If he answers “yes,” then X is necessarily false; if he answers “no,” then X is necessarily true. I gave the logical analysis there and won’t repeat it here. From this arose the question: why not use this as an investigative tool for the police? Why toil to seek evidence, check confessions, etc.? The answer is that while the logical analysis shows that if X is true he must answer “no” to that question (otherwise he falls into a contradiction), in practice nothing prevents him from answering “no” anyway. As long as he lacks a logical obsession and isn’t truly afraid of uttering contradictory sentences, nothing stops his lips from moving that way.

I explained there that the meaning is this: a logical analysis of statements does not compel human behavior. If I utter a contradictory sentence, nothing happens to me. I have merely created a problem for the listener, who won’t be able to understand me or glean any information from it. But there is no bar to uttering such a sentence. The contradictions exist on the logical plane, but they don’t stop a person from saying them. Put differently, the teacher has said nothing (at least from the listener’s standpoint at that moment). He has conveyed no information to the students, and precisely for that reason they are surprised. It’s as if they would have been surprised had he given a pop quiz without any prior announcement. That is exactly the situation here as well, since, as we’ve seen, there really was no prior announcement.

Back to the surprise quiz: implications and further angles

This is exactly what we saw in analyzing the surprise quiz paradox. The teacher indeed uttered a contradictory sentence—but he still uttered it. Nothing prevents a person from uttering a contradictory sentence. What is special here is that the sentence’s contradictoriness is what solves the paradox, because, as I explained, I am not asking whether some fact holds; I am asking whether a person will be surprised in a certain situation. If the sentence describing the situation is contradictory, then whatever happens in that situation will surprise him. The sentence’s effect on the person is not through its truth value, and therefore we need not cling here to binary logic. The sentence is not a “statement” in the usual sense (since it doesn’t have only two truth values), but its utterance still has meaning and affects the hearers. In this sense, such an utterance resembles a poem. In my series of columns on poetry I explained that a poem works on hearers not (only) through its (verbal) content but through messages conveyed by its formal structure. The words are merely the medium through which those messages pass. The same goes for contradictory sentences like this one.

Put differently, the teacher has said nothing. His “statement” contains no information. Yet it still has some meaning, and that meaning acts in the world: it causes surprise. This is an interesting conclusion, for it turns out that sentences whose truth value I do not know—i.e., that have no fixed truth value—can still have content and meaning. One cannot say that sentences like “Tomorrow there will be a surprise quiz,” or “There will be a surprise quiz next week,” are meaningless. They tell me something very clear: that tomorrow there will be a surprise quiz. I cannot know whether they are true or false, but they still have meaning.

Incidentally, once the relevant time passes and the quiz is or is not held, I can now say that the sentence is an ordinary statement with a truth value: if I was surprised, then there was indeed a surprise quiz and the statement is true. If not—then it’s false. But now we reach another surprising conclusion: it’s an entirely ordinary statement with a single truth value (true or false), only I have no way of knowing it in advance. I will know it only after time passes. I remind you that in my series on causality (459466) and in the series on foreknowledge and free will (299304) I argued that the truth value of a statement does not depend on time. Here, apparently, we see the opposite: the truth value does depend on time—now it is paradoxical or unknown; in the future it will be true or false. But that is a mistake. The truth value is not time-dependent. If the statement is true—then it is true always; if it is false—then it is false always. Only, before the event I do not know what that value is. The lack is in me, not in the statement itself. In this sense, the statement is not like the Liar. The student’s surprise is not tied to the statement’s real (future) truth value but to what he knows today, and today it appears contradictory to him. Therefore the quiz will indeed surprise him. After the quiz is held, the statement turns out to be true (for a surprise quiz really was held), but that was not known to him beforehand.

Back to Aleksandrowicz and “the secular person’s wagon”

In column 601 I discussed treatments of the surprise quiz paradox from Gadi Aleksandrowicz’s site Not Exactly and from the site One Against All Religion. I noted that in their discussions they invoked distinctions between truth and provability, and questions of knowledge, and I argued against them that such things aren’t needed to solve the paradox. In light of what we’ve seen here, the situation looks different. The solution is not semantic-content-based, as I claimed there. Here we’ve seen we do need to engage with paradoxes (including the Liar) and with logical analysis. So, first of all, if I owe them an apology for an unfair accusation, I must do so (in keeping with the demand for fairness expressed in the previous column and here).

But after apologizing for my mistake in the previous column, I should add that to my mind both still analyzed the paradox incorrectly. Both assume—mistakenly—that in the one-day case there is no paradox, just a false statement. Both also assume that one must omit the last day, since on it there will be no surprise. And finally, both discuss knowledge versus provability (Gödel’s theorem). In light of what we’ve seen here, none of that is necessary. Note that both conclude that the quiz can indeed be held on Shabbat but without surprise (as I wrote in the previous column, and as appears on Wikipedia), but as we’ve seen here that seems to be a mistake. There can be surprise even in the one-day case and even on the last day of the week. If one adopts the solution from the previous column, in which the quiz can be held on Shabbat (without surprise), then indeed their whole analysis is unnecessary. Under that assumption, the semantic-content solution from the previous column suffices. But in the present column we saw that the substantive solution to the paradox also allows the quiz to be held on Shabbat and to surprise us. We saw that nothing limits any day, and that even for one day the paradox can be formulated in the same way. In that situation—only in that situation—we truly need a logical analysis of the sort I’ve given here. But even here, in my view, we need not appeal to knowledge versus provability.[1]

Note: Back to homiletics and casuistry

All that remains is to wonder whether the previous column was casuistry or homiletics. As you’ll recall (see that column), casuistry is a sound argument leading to a false conclusion, while homiletics is a faulty argument leading to a true conclusion. It would seem that my remarks in the previous column were homiletics, since we reached the true conclusion (that dogmatism is a bad trait) by a faulty argument (that the surprise quiz paradox necessarily requires a second-type solution). But there was also an element of casuistry, since we also reached a “solution” that is not correct (that there is no genuine surprise quiz in the usual sense: one that would surprise us on any day) via an argument that looked sound. Either way, it’s clear that one should not be dogmatic. These two columns together demonstrate that point quite well.

[1] Incidentally, Aleksandrowicz also compares the paradox to a similar one without the surprise element. I think the analysis I’ve given here shows they are not similar, since the notion of surprise is essential to this paradox. There can be surprise even in the one-day announcement, and that is only due to the nature of surprises.

Discussion

Naamah (2023-11-16)

A. In my opinion, if the teacher says, "There will be a surprise quiz this week and it will definitely surprise you," then the quiz cannot be on Shabbat, and therefore it cannot take place at all. The claim that it would surprise us even on Shabbat because we do not know whether it will take place at all is true for all the other days, but on Shabbat, if it does not take place, it turns out there will be no quiz at all. That contradicts what the teacher said, and there is no reason to assume that perhaps the teacher is lying; the paradox should be examined on the assumption that he is telling the truth. And if one really wants, one can add this to the sentence and say: the quiz will definitely surprise you and it will definitely take place as well. Here too one could say that he is lying, but then perhaps he is also lying with regard to the word "definitely," so it will surprise us but not definitely. That already makes the whole thing worthless.

B. The more convincing solution in my opinion from the first type (the one that shows a flaw in the argument) lies in the point in time from which one is looking, and in what the student knows at each point in time. If one looks forward in real time, each day the student does not know whether the quiz will take place or not, and therefore will be surprised (except for the seventh day). If one looks backward, when the student already knows that the quiz has not taken place up to that time x, then there is a paradox, but he cannot know in advance that this is how it will be. Therefore, in reality there is a surprise quiz.

Michi (2023-11-16)

Even on Shabbat it would be a surprise, because there is a possibility that it will not be held at all. True, that contradicts what the teacher said, but if it is held without being a surprise, that also contradicts what he said. So in any case what he said does not hold for Shabbat, and I am in a dilemma whether it will take place or not, and therefore I will be surprised.

Avi (2023-11-17)

Why is the wording "I chose a day next week to test you, and the quiz will definitely surprise you" not nonsense? Practically speaking, it really does seem like nonsense. I remember that as a student, in such cases when the last possible date arrived, I would come to school knowing that today there would be a quiz. That is, the sentence "There will be a quiz next week" and the sentence "It will definitely surprise you" are contradictory. It is as though the teacher were saying, "There will be a quiz next week, but not on Sunday through Shabbat."

Michi (2023-11-17)

I explained the matter here very well. When you get to the last day, there are two possibilities: there will be no quiz (the teacher lied). There will be a quiz and it will not be a surprise (the teacher lied). Since you do not know which of the two is correct, you do not have certainty as to which of them will happen. Therefore, when the quiz is given, it surprises you. And of course it now turns out that, in the final analysis, the teacher actually did not lie.

Yosef (2023-11-18)

I think your solution can be formulated in a simpler and less "revolutionary" way:
If the teacher had not told the students anything, could he have given a surprise quiz? Certainly yes.
Now, when he tells them "Tomorrow there will be a surprise quiz," that is a statement that cannot be believed (because then it is necessarily false), and it also cannot be disbelieved (because then it is necessarily true, assuming the teacher does not just lie for no reason). This is similar to the liar paradox, except that instead of saying "This statement is false," one says, "You do not believe this statement."
In this situation, the statement gives us no clear information, and from the standpoint of our knowledge we are in the same state as if it had not been said at all. In such a state, can one give a surprise quiz? Certainly yes.

Michi (2023-11-19)

This version also appears in the column.

Uri Moriyosef (2023-11-20)

Blessed are you, my father Michael; if only I too had such a brilliant and sharp mind, but I have not yet been privileged to.

Danny (2023-11-20)

Hi,
First of all, thank you very much for the effort you put into this detailed post!
A. In your opinion, in Gadi's example (a group of people in a line, with no element of time or surprise), do we necessarily have to arrive at the concepts of provability and knowledge?
B. If we know that there really will be an exam next week, and then the teacher says, “The date of the exam will surprise you” – is there a paradox here (or again, do we have to get to provability and knowledge)? In this case, if there is only one day during next week, then the statement is indeed false (please correct me if I am mistaken).
Full disclosure: I am not familiar with the concepts of provability and knowledge.

Thank you very much!

Michi (2023-11-20)

A. At the moment I do not remember the details of the matter, and it is hard for me to get into it.
B. I did not understand. How is this case different from the one I discussed?

Danny (2023-11-21)

B. You assume that it is not certain there will be an exam (and therefore it can still be a surprise even on the last day). I am talking about a case in which we know for certain that there will be an exam, but the date is unknown, and the teacher merely announces that the date will surprise the students. In such a case, in my opinion, it really is impossible to give the exam on the last day, and therefore apparently one can once again rule out all the days.

Yossi (2023-11-21)

Indeed.

Yosef (2023-11-21)

The question remains exactly the same. I will try to recast your question in terms of the well-known paradox of "This statement is false" (or a strengthened version of it, if it bothers you to see a fake paradox). The teacher says, "My next statement is true" (now you assume that this statement is correct no matter what). In the teacher's next statement, he says, "This statement is false." Did the teacher's first statement change the problem? No! Because if one concludes that the teacher's first statement is true, one must assume that the second statement is also true, which of course does not work out. In other words, it is simply impossible to assume that the teacher's first statement is correct in every case. The same thing applies to the question of the quiz: it is impossible to assume that it will take place in every case (in our case, the case is that it will be surprising). The beauty of it is that this is exactly what creates the students' surprise and makes it possible to announce surprise quizzes in advance (as Michael explained wonderfully).

Michi (2023-11-21)

Not true. We do not know for certain that there will be a quiz. Maybe there will not be one because of the argument I wrote in the column. When you get to the last day, then if the quiz takes place it will not be a surprise, and so the teacher lied. So there is a possibility that there will be no quiz at all, which is another lie by the teacher. In short, it is completely identical to my case.

Danny (2023-11-21)

Michael and Yosef, it may be that there is a point I am missing here, but I am talking about a situation in which we know (not from the teacher's words) that there is a quiz.
For example, the moment the teacher chooses a day next week to give a test, a message is sent to all the students (a message whose content is "Next week there will be a quiz").
Now the given situation is that there will be a quiz, and on that there is no dispute.
After that the teacher announces that the date of the quiz will be a surprise. In the above case, if for example next week has only one day, then of course the teacher is lying (because the quiz that we know will take place will not surprise us).

Michi (2023-11-21)

Or he is lying because there will be no quiz. If you are claiming some hypothetical case in which somehow we know that he is not lying about that, then we are back to the case of the first column (which assumes there can be a quiz on the six days as a surprise or on the seventh without surprise). In that situation I wrote there that there is no problem.

Shua (2025-01-09)

Suppose.

Shua (2025-01-09)

Suppose there is a summer camp for a week, and there must be one day for the big trip (that is how it is every year), and the day is a surprise (that is the organizers' goal), so it is clear that it will not be on the last day, and in any event every other day would be a surprise (according to my intuition), even though clearly the calculation mentioned here still exists. (And here the excuses that were written will not work: A. because it is clear that it will not be on the last day; B. it is clear that it definitely will happen.) Where is the mistake?

Michi (2025-01-09)

Are you serious? That is what the column is devoted to.

Shua (2025-01-09)

The solution written in the column, that even on the last day there would be a surprise because there is a possibility that the exam will not happen on the last day (and then too the teacher is lying), does not apply to the example I gave, where the trip has to be on one of the days. On the other hand, the solution from the previous column also will not work, since there is an interest in surprising them, and therefore clearly it will not happen on the last day. So can only the de facto solution work here? Did I understand correctly?

Shua (2025-01-09)

I am only giving an example of something that must happen x and must also have an effect of surprise y within a limited time,
can such a thing exist? (And if so, is it only because of the de facto argument?)

Michi (2025-01-09)

The whole discussion here is about something that must happen. I really do not understand what you want. That itself was the discussion. Note that there are two columns on the subject (also 601).

Shua (2025-01-09)

I really also do not understand. I read both columns. The truth is that my question is similar to Danny's above, and also to Naamah's and Avi's, and there the Rabbi's response is that the teacher is certainly lying, because it cannot be surprising on the last day, and therefore there is a possibility that there will be no quiz at all. In the case I presented, that cannot be. And to that the Rabbi replied (in the last response to Danny) that if so, then the solution from the previous column would work (that there may be an exam on the last day even though it would not be surprising then), and that too cannot be in the example I gave above. Therefore my question is whether only the de facto solution helps? And if not, what am I missing? (What other solution applies to the example I gave?)
Thank you very much. I would really appreciate a somewhat detailed answer (I assume I simply missed part of this column or the previous one; I cannot figure out what. I would be glad if you could point me to a specific passage.)

Michi (2025-01-09)

I cannot understand the question. This is a case I dealt with in the column, and I said what I think about it: either a de facto solution, or the solution that there might be no trip at all, and therefore even on the last day it would be a surprise. You are assuming that the trip must occur, and that is indeed the usual assumption. But that itself is the solution: the trip need not occur, because this argument proves that there is no surprise trip.
If you do not clarify the question, I am ending here.

Shua (2025-01-11)

Is the de facto solution a good solution? (In column 601 there is some pilpul on the subject; I could not understand the conclusion.)

Shua (2025-01-11)

I am only saying that in the formulation David proposed, in the case where the students have additional information that there definitely will be an exam (and there are many examples of such a thing), still, according to my intuition, on each of the first six days the teacher would be able to surprise them (you are claiming that in such a case the teacher really has no way to surprise them, and my intuition is misleading me).
And that is what several of the comments here are arguing, especially Danny's. It seems that this does not trouble only my intuition…
And for some reason it does not seem that you are answering this claim in the comments. For example: "If you are claiming some hypothetical case in which somehow we know that he is not lying about that, then we are back to the case of the first column (which assumes there can be a quiz on the six days as a surprise or on the seventh without surprise). In that situation I wrote there that there is no problem" in response to Danny's question.
And I did not understand what the connection is to going back to the previous column? The question is about the case discussed in this column!

Michi (2025-01-12)

I wrote there that apparently not, because it does not point to a flaw in the argument.

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