Between the Halachic Validity of a Commandment and the Strength of the Obligation to Observe It (Column 679)
Why 'Why do I need a verse? It is logical' does not make every sevara Torah law
The column opens with a difficulty about the talmudic rule that if there is a sevara, no verse is needed. At first glance this equates sevara with a verse, but the rabbi distinguishes between two kinds of sevara. An interpretive sevara only uncovers what is already included in an existing verse, and therefore it can give a law Torah-level status; this is how he proposes to understand 'the burden of proof lies on the claimant' and 'the mouth that forbade is the mouth that permitted', both derived from 'judge your fellow justly'. By contrast, a substantive, innovative sevara creates a new law that has no anchor in a verse, and therefore it does not become Torah law. The clearest example is the blessing before eating. Already here the basic distinction emerges: a binding source is not always a source that grants the same halakhic status.
The Rambam-Ramban dispute over 'Lo Tasur' as a test case for the distinction
Against that background, the column returns to the Rambam-Ramban dispute about the source of rabbinic authority. The Rambam grounds that authority in 'Lo Tasur', and the Ramban objects that if so every rabbinic law should count as Torah law. The rabbi suggests that the source of authority may indeed be a verse or a sevara, and yet the norms generated by it do not automatically receive Torah-level status. If the authority of the sages rests on an innovative sevara, or on a branching out from 'Lo Tasur' rather than a direct unpacking of it, one gets a full duty to obey the sages without turning their enactments into Torah law. From here comes the central claim: the rule that a doubt in rabbinic law is treated leniently does not prove that our obligation toward rabbinic law is weaker; it only shows that its halakhic status is different.
Morality and pre-halakhic legal norms bind without automatically becoming Torah law
From here the column expands to extra-halakhic norms. Regarding morality, the rabbi reiterates that it is a category different from halakha; that is why 'do what is right and good' was not counted by the Rishonim as a regular commandment. Even so, the force of the duty to be moral may be no weaker, because it too is known by sevara and expresses God's will. The same move also explains R. Shimon Shkop's innovation about the pre-halakhic legal order: property law and monetary obligations precede the Torah, and the prohibition of theft relies on them rather than creating them. Against those who saw this as an almost heretical idea, the rabbi stresses that R. Shimon Shkop is speaking about the binding force of such norms, not necessarily about their halakhic status. One can therefore say that theft includes a highly binding rational-legal prohibition as well, even if its formal status is lower than Torah law; and regarding a gentile, according to some views, that is the main prohibition. The column leaves open that not all extra-halakhic categories are identical to one another.
Every mitzvah has two components: the command that obligates and the substance that gives content
To ground the distinction, the column ties it to another idea the rabbi has developed elsewhere: every mitzvah and every transgression has two aspects, command and substance. On the one hand, performing a mitzvah is responding to God's command; on the other hand, the act itself has content and consequences — repair, perfection, or damage. This explains Tosafot HaRosh on 'greater is one who is commanded and does than one who is not commanded and does': the commanded person fulfills both the command and the content, whereas the uncommanded person achieves only the content. In the same way, the rabbi proposes to resolve the Rambam's ninth root: for something to be counted as a commandment it needs both a distinct command and a distinct content. Several verses that repeat the same content are not enough, and several contents that all emerge from one verse are not enough either.
Why stringency, punishment, and rules of override do not necessarily measure the strength of obligation
From the distinction between command and substance, the rabbi concludes that everything we were commanded shares the same force of obligation on the level of command, but not the same gravity. Gravity is determined by the content and consequences of the act, and that explains why prohibitions, punishments, and various rules can come in different degrees of severity without implying a weaker basic obligation. This also leads to a proposal about punishment: the very possibility of punishment depends on there having been a command, but the measure of punishment may reflect the depth of the damage rather than the intensity of rebellion as such. Finally, the column suggests that this may also explain why rules of override such as 'one engaged in a mitzvah is exempt from another mitzvah', 'human dignity', and 'a positive command overrides a negative one' are not always built on a simple scale of severity. That is why the sages emphasized, 'be as careful with a light mitzvah as with a severe one': precisely in the lighter mitzvot, where the threatening consequences are less visible, loyalty to the command is tested most sharply.
In this column I wish to set out an interesting distinction that occurred to me in a recent class I gave, between the legal status (tokef) of a norm and the level or strength of the obligation to fulfill it. We usually assume that the stronger the legal status of a norm, the greater the obligation to keep it: a biblical (de-oraita) norm obligates more than a rabbinic (de-rabbanan) one; a prohibition carrying stoning is “more obligating” than one carrying lashes. I have been mulling that this is not necessary. On the contrary, I am inclined to think there is no connection between a norm’s legal status and the strength of the obligation to fulfill it. In my view, the obligation to keep all norms is identical regardless of their halachic status. I present these musings here for your consideration.
Text and Reason
The Talmud says in several places: “Why do I need a verse? It is logical (svara)!”—that is, it assumes that if there is a compelling reason, a verse is unnecessary.[1] So with respect to the legal rule “the burden of proof rests upon the claimant” (see Bava Kamma 46b), and similarly with the principle “the mouth that prohibited is the mouth that permitted” (see Ketubot 22a), among others. From here some commentators understood that there is an equivalence between a verse and a reasoned argument; otherwise there would be no place for the question “Why do I need a verse?”
But this principle seems quite puzzling. We know that for any norm to have the status of de-oraita it requires a command in the Torah. Norms that lack a source in the Torah are not de-oraita. In his Ninth Principle, Maimonides (Rambam) even argues that if several distinct laws emerge from a single verse, they are not counted as separate commandments, because we do not have a separate command for each. In his Second Principle he also claims that if a given law is derived by midrashic exegesis, it does not have the status of a de-oraita law, since we have no explicit Torah source for it (he holds that a derasha does not uncover something already present in the verse but extends the verse beyond its plain meaning. See this at length in the book Yishlach Shoreshav, in the article on the Second Principle). If so, how can a law without a verse be regarded as de-oraita?
In my article on sevarot (reasoned arguments) I discussed this point at length. I explained there that one must distinguish between a svara that comes to interpret a law that appears in the Torah, and a svara that innovates an altogether new law with no source in the Torah (like the argument in Berakhot 35a regarding blessings over enjoyment prior to eating; see Penei Yehoshua and Tzelach there). The two examples I brought above (“the mouth that prohibited…” and “the burden of proof…”) both interpret a law that appears in the Torah, for both address how to fulfill the command “Judge your fellow with righteousness.” Part of “righteousness” is the law of evidence and procedural rules; therefore the svara that establishes these procedures can receive de-oraita status. Such a svara merely reveals that the verse “Judge your fellow with righteousness” entails these two principles, and consequently they have de-oraita status by virtue of the verse. Once the svara interprets the verse, that verse itself becomes the Torah source for these rules. But a law that a svara innovates ex nihilo (such as blessings over enjoyment) cannot have the status of a de-oraita law. In short: an interpretive svara yields de-oraita law, but a substantive/innovative svara does not.
The Rambam–Ramban Dispute about “Lo Tasur”
In Column 652 I addressed the dispute among the early authorities regarding the status of rabbinic laws. Rambam states in several places that the Sages’ authority to legislate rabbinic norms is rooted in the verse “Lo tasur” (“Do not deviate”). Ramban counters that this cannot be, for on Rambam’s understanding all rabbinic norms thereby become de-oraita (since anyone who violates them transgresses a Torah prohibition), and thus their doubt would have to be treated stringently, together with all other de-oraita distinctions.
Among other things, the question arises: what could be Ramban’s source for the Sages’ authority? R. Elchanan Wasserman, in his “Kuntres Divrei Sofrim,” argues that a priori no such source is possible. Obviously the Sages’ own enactment cannot itself grant binding authority to rabbinic enactments—that would be circular. But if Ramban has a verse as his source (even a different verse from “Lo tasur”), the difficulty he raises against Rambam would apply to him as well (on his view too, safek de-rabbanan should be stringent, since if it has a scriptural source it would be de-oraita). And if his source is a svara, we still face the problem that rabbinic norms should have de-oraita standing, since—as we saw—svara is equivalent to a verse.
In that column I proposed an explanation of Rambam’s position: the Sages’ authority to enact and decree rabbinic law indeed derives from “Lo tasur,” yet these do not thereby acquire de-oraita standing. They are a branch (histafefut) from “Lo tasur,” not a specification of it. I added there that this seems to be the explanation even according to Ramban, for as the Kovetz Shiurim shows, he cannot have a different source. But now we seem to have another way according to Ramban: indeed the source is a svara, yet still rabbinic laws do not have de-oraita standing. The reason is that this svara is not interpretive but innovative, establishing a new law. As we saw, the products of such sevarot do not have the standing of de-oraita law.
So where does the force of such laws stand? If they are not de-oraita, then seemingly they must be de-rabbanan. Here I would like to suggest another option: rabbinic laws are norms whose obligation to fulfill is full—like de-oraita (this is the equivalence between svara and verse)—but their standing is not that of de-oraita laws. It may be that this is also what Rambam meant: he learns them from “Lo tasur,” yet still sees them as “lighter” laws. The obligation to fulfill them is exactly like the obligation to fulfill biblical laws, but their severity—their halachic standing—is lighter.
Let me explain a bit more. We are used to thinking that a norm’s halachic standing determines the strength of the obligation to fulfill it. Hence, a biblical law carries a greater obligation than a rabbinic one. But I want to propose a distinction: the obligation to keep all the laws is the same, since all are God’s will. And yet different laws have different halachic standing or severity. Even within de-oraita there are prohibitions that entail stoning, lashes, or “plain” negative commandments—all of them biblical. My claim is that all of these entail the same level of obligation to keep them, since all are God’s will and command, but their severity differs.[2] So too regarding rabbinic laws: the obligation to keep them is exactly like the obligation to keep biblical laws, but their halachic standing differs. We rule leniently in cases of doubt because of their standing, not because the obligation to keep them is weaker.
The conclusion is that rabbinic laws, and all norms grounded in svara, carry the same strength of obligation to fulfill as biblical laws. But their halachic standing is different from that of de-oraita norms.
The Standing of Moral Obligations
A similar discussion may be had regarding moral obligations. Clearly it is God’s will that we keep them, but there is no formal command about them. Not for nothing, “And you shall do what is right and good” is not included by the early authorities in the enumerations of the commandments, for they did not see it as a commandment. This reflects a point I have made more than once (see for example Column 541, and many others) that morality is a category distinct from halacha.
Here too one might say that the obligation to be moral is no different from the obligation to keep halacha; only its halachic standing is different because we have no explicit command for it.[3] Again, this distinguishes between halachic status and the strength of the obligation to fulfill. A moral obligation is, in essence, grounded in svara, and so this conclusion follows from our previous one.
Jurisprudence and R. Shimon Shkop
In Column 428 (and elsewhere) I described the innovation of R. Shimon Shkop: there are halachic norms that precede the Torah; the Torah assumes we are bound by them even without a command. His main example concerns “the burden of proof rests upon the claimant.” His claim is that a person’s right to his property is a juridic norm that precedes the Torah and does not derive its force from a Torah command. On the contrary, the prohibition “Do not steal” in the Torah is based on a de facto recognition of property law that belongs to jurisprudence. Thus he writes in Sha’ar Heh, ch. 2:
It seems to me that the institution of personal liability with respect to all monetary obligations is a juridic rule: a person is bound and obligated to provide from his assets to his fellow such-and-such. This obligation is a juridic obligation even without the Torah’s command, just as the types of acquisitions and the laws of ownership in property are juridic matters even without the warning of “Do not steal.” As we explained above, it is in no way conceivable to say that the reason we ascribe an object to Reuven is because Shimon is warned by the Torah not to steal it from him; rather, the matter is the reverse: the prohibition of theft comes after the determination of the matter by the laws that set the boundaries of ownership. Similarly, it appears that the commandment to repay a debt comes only after the determination of the obligation according to juridic law: once a monetary obligation has fallen upon Reuven by virtue of the laws of justice, the Torah added a warning and a command to guard and repay his obligation which he owes according to the juridic law.
His claim is that only after we have determined what belongs to whom (and jurisprudence does that) can we apply the prohibition of theft (whose source is the Torah’s “Do not steal”) to one who violates another’s property.
Among other things, I explained there that even according to views that theft from a non-Jew is not prohibited by the Torah’s “Do not steal,” all agree that it is forbidden by Torah-level jurisprudence. Jurisprudence determines that this property belongs to someone, and consequently there is a juridic prohibition to steal from him. Many are astonished by R. Shkop’s innovation; in that column I cited what R. Shmuel Fischer said (he called it heretical). But R. Shkop himself addresses this difficulty, and writes immediately after the above passage:
Although at first glance it is puzzling: what necessity and obligation is there upon a person to do something without the Torah’s command and warning? But upon deeper reflection this can be understood. For the obligation and necessity of serving God and fulfilling His will is itself an obligation and necessity according to the judgment of reason and recognition. So too the obligation and lien of money is a juridic obligation determined by the ways of acquisition—or one whom the Torah obligates in damages, redemption of the firstborn, and the like. For this matter we require that there be a buyer and one who acquires this right.
His claim is that our entire obligation to serve God is grounded in svara, and consequently any other law that follows from svara obligates us in exactly the same way. It is not the Torah that grounds our obligation to laws derived from reason, but rather reason that grounds our obligation to what is written in the Torah.
We may now ask: what is the status of this prohibition? Is it a Torah prohibition? As noted, there is no explicit Torah command (for “Do not steal” is a command about the halachic prohibition of theft, which—regarding a non-Jew, for example—according to some early authorities does not apply), but it follows from svara. Simply put, it would follow that this is de-oraita; and then the objections to R. Shkop would seem quite strange. How is this svara any different from other sevarot found in halacha and in the Talmud?
But according to our approach, here we are dealing with a svara that innovates a new law rather than interpreting an existing one. Therefore we may say that although the standing of such norms is lower, the obligation to keep them is like regular de-oraita laws. Thus, if a person steals his fellow’s property, he violates two prohibitions: a juridic prohibition (whose standing is lower than a Torah prohibition) and a halachic prohibition. Regarding a non-Jew, there are opinions that he violates only the juridic prohibition (and the halachic one is rabbinic). Note that R. Shkop’s argument concerns our obligation to obey such norms, not necessarily their standing. His claim is that what emerges from reason obligates us fully. But, as we have seen, that does not necessarily mean its halachic standing is like a de-oraita norm.
Not for nothing does R. Shkop not cite the Talmudic rule “Why do I need a verse? It is logical!” as his justification. That rule addresses the halachic standing of a law produced by svara (for it implies that if there is svara, the verse is superfluous—not only is there full obligation to keep the law, but its halachic standing is identical to a law learned from a verse)—and, as noted, that applies only when the svara is interpretive. But when the svara innovates a new law, the rule “Why do I need a verse—svara!” does not apply, even though the obligation to keep it certainly exists by virtue of the very same svara that obligates us to keep the Torah’s commands.
Two Components in Every Commandment: Command and Substance
Thus far we have seen that the force of the obligation to obey all norms is identical, while their severity and halachic standing may differ. We can connect this to another distinction I have often made: between the command and the substance (content) of every mitzvah and transgression.
In Column 342, 631, and elsewhere, I noted that every mitzvah and transgression has two distinct dimensions: the command and the content. R. Elchanan Wasserman, in his collected essays, in the article “Teshuvah,” cites Ramchal in Derekh Hashem (I:4:7):
The purpose of the performance of the commandments for a person is clear: to fulfill the command of his Creator and to do His will. And he fulfills His will in two ways that follow one from the other: first, in that He commanded him to perform that act and he performs it; and second, because through that act a person is perfected in one of the levels of perfection that is the product of the commandment—and thus God’s will is fulfilled, for He desires that a person be perfected and come to benefit from His goodness.
That is, in every mitzvah or transgression there are two aspects: fulfilling God’s will/command, and the inherent aim of the act itself. When one eats pork, one both violates the command that forbade it and damages something in himself or in the world (the content of the mitzvah). And when one honors parents, one both obeys the command and effects some repair within himself or in the world. We may call these two components the “command” and the “substance” of every mitzvah or transgression.
From here we can also understand the words of the Tosafot Rosh (see also Ritva there) on Kiddushin 31a, explaining the dictum “Greater is one who is commanded and does than one who is not commanded and does.” He writes:
“Greater is one who is commanded and does.” Although we say in Chagigah ch. 2, by way of parable, that when a king tells his servants to rise early to his gate, to whom should thanks be owed more—perhaps to women, who do not usually rise early like men—there it is not comparable, for in that case both are commanded, and thus the one for whom it is not the norm is more praiseworthy when he does. Here, however, the reason that one who is commanded and does is greater is that he is constantly anxious and distressed lest he transgress, and he must overcome his inclination more than one who is not commanded—for if he wishes, he can refrain. Moreover, the Holy One, blessed be He, needs nothing from the commandments; rather, He speaks and His will is done. Therefore, one who is commanded and does is fulfilling the will of his Creator, whereas one who is not commanded and does cannot be said to be doing his Creator’s will, for he was not commanded at all, though he still receives reward.”
In his second explanation he writes that the one who is commanded and does achieves both: he responds to the command and he attains the content-aim of the mitzvah. In contrast, one who is not commanded does not fulfill the command (since none was addressed to him), though he does attain the mitzvah’s substantive aim (hence he nevertheless receives reward).
We see this as well in Rambam’s Ninth Principle (see on this Column 582). In the first part of that principle Rambam states that if the Torah repeats a commandment or prohibition, it is counted only once in the enumeration (e.g., the Torah commands the observance of Shabbat twelve times; in the count we list only one positive commandment). In the second part he discusses a “general prohibition” and rules that if several different laws are learned from one verse, they are not counted separately; only one commandment is enumerated.
R. Yerucham Fishel Perla, at the beginning of his commentary to R. Saadiah Gaon’s Sefer ha-Mitzvot, devotes essays to each principle. In his essay on the Ninth Principle he claims that Rambam contradicts himself. From the first part it emerges that content determines the count; hence when several verses command the same content, we count only one mitzvah. But in the second part, Rambam says the opposite: if there is one command with several contents, we still count only one mitzvah. From here it emerges that the command—not the content—determines the count. RY”P leaves this as difficult, but the explanation seems simple: for a commandment to be counted and to be considered de-oraita, it must have both a unique content and a command. Both components are required. In the first part, Rambam says that if the content is not unique—even if there are multiple commands—we do not count more than one. In the second part he says that if the command is lacking—even if there are distinct contents—we still do not count more than one.
This means that every mitzvah requires a verse that commands it and a unique content of its own. Why? Because these are the two components that every mitzvah or transgression must have: the command makes it a halachic obligation (the act of fulfilling the command), and the content expresses its substantive aim (what is being required of us).
Implications for the Distinction Between a Mitzvah’s Status and the Strength of the Obligation to Fulfill It
We can now add depth to the distinction proposed above. In all commandments there is a command that obligates us to perform them. In that sense, they are all equal in standing, and thus the obligation to fulfill them is equal. But as for the content, some mitzvot/transgressions are more severe (for their ramifications are more consequential, for good or ill), and therefore they are more severe in terms of halachic standing. It is possible that their penalty is also harsher.
We surveyed several extra-halachic categories and wondered about their severity and the obligation to fulfill them: categories such as moral norms, going beyond the letter of the law, or norms of jurisprudence. None of these come with a command; what does that imply? Simply, one might think there is no obligation to fulfill them despite their benefit, since we were not commanded. Yet their content may be as weighty as halachic mitzvot/transgressions—perhaps even more so (depending on consequences). But one may wonder: why, indeed, were we not commanded regarding them? Perhaps because their severity is lower; but the obligation to fulfill them may still be like halachic norms. One could formulate this differently: there are indeed “commands” to fulfill them, but they are not halachic commands—they are directives of morality and the like (embedded in conscience, intellect, and svara). These do not necessarily appear in the Torah (and even if they do—such as “what is right and good”—they are not part of halacha), but it is clear that this is God’s will, and perhaps even His command. Therefore, there may be a full obligation to fulfill them, while their severity (halachic standing) may differ (according to their consequences).
It may also be that there are differences among these categories: some may have lower severity with the same level of obligation to fulfill; others may have a lower level of obligation though their severity is comparable. For example, regarding morality I have shown in several places (I mentioned Column 541 above) that it constitutes an extra-halachic category and therefore does not come with formal commands in the Torah. But that does not mean that our level of commitment to it is lower. Perhaps there is a “command” that we grasp by svara, even if there is no formal command in the Torah.
A Note on the Meaning of Punishments
I noted in footnote 2 the discussion of the relationship between the severity of punishment and the severity of the transgression (see e.g. here and here). There I showed that according to Rambam and his school, it seems that the severity of punishment is proportional to the severity of the transgression, whereas according to Sefer Chasidim it is not.
Apparently this depends on whether punishment is given for violating the command or for the gravity of the consequences. This itself depends on our theory of punishment: is punishment a sanction on the person, or a repair (tikkun) of the damage his transgression wrought (see my remarks there)? If we assign harsher punishment to a more severe transgression—as the mainstream early authorities do—then it is reasonable that punishment is a repair for consequences, not a sanction for rebellion against the command (since rebellion is identical across transgressions). But if so, why is there no punishment for acts for which there is no command at all (e.g., moral violations or failures to go beyond the letter of the law)?
It seems that the severity of punishment is set by the severity of the transgression, i.e., by its consequences (the magnitude of the damage), but a condition for punishment is that there be a command. Once this condition is met, punishment is due, but its severity is according to the gravity of the act. Severity is a function of the repair that punishment provides; but the very liability to punishment concerns the person’s culpability, which is determined by rebellion against a command.
A Few Notes on Rules of Precedence (Dekhiyyah) in Halacha
When there is a general rule establishing precedence among norms, one may ask whether the precedence is a function of status/severity, or whether it depends on the command-component. For example, the rule “One engaged in a command is exempt from another command” seems to ignore, puzzlingly, differences in relative severity among commandments. I would have expected a person to engage in the more severe commandment; yet in practice, even one engaged in a minor mitzvah does not stop in order to fulfill a more severe one. Perhaps the reason is that if a person is performing God’s command, the level of obligation to fulfill the “more severe” one is not higher than his level of obligation to fulfill the “lighter” one; hence he does not interrupt the latter for the former.
In the displacement of prohibitions out of respect for human dignity (kavod ha-briyot) we likewise do not find fine gradations of severity. We do distinguish between de-oraita and de-rabbanan, and between active violation and passive non-performance. Perhaps here too the explanation lies in the fact that human dignity does not displace rebellion against God’s command as a categorical matter; and this is not dependent on the severity of the particular prohibition. The same applies to “a positive command displaces a negative one.” There too there is a complex discussion whether this is because one is “more severe” than the other. If that is the reason, we would expect rules of precedence among positive commands or among negative commands according to their severity.
This may be the root of the rabbinic statements about “light” commandments that people trample under their heels (see a collection of sources here). For example, in Midrash Tanchuma, Ekev §1, we find:
“‘And it shall come to pass, because (ekev) you listen…’ (Deut. 7:12). This is what Scripture says: ‘Why should I fear in days of evil? The iniquity of my heels surrounds me’ (Ps. 49:6). Blessed be He who gave the Torah to Israel, which contains 613 commandments—some light and some severe. Because there are light commandments that people do not pay attention to, but instead throw them under their heels, saying they are light—therefore David feared the day of judgment and said: Master of the Universe, I do not fear the severe commandments of the Torah—for they are severe. Of what do I fear? Of the light commandments: perhaps I transgressed one of them—whether I did it or failed to do it—because it was ‘light.’ And You said: ‘Be as careful with a light commandment as with a severe one.’ Therefore he said: ‘Why should I fear in days of evil? The iniquity of my heels surrounds me.’”
The “light” commandments that people trample are indeed lighter (their consequences are less weighty), but the obligation to fulfill them is identical to that of the “severe” commandments. Moreover, it is precisely in them that a person’s commitment to obey God’s command is most manifest, for with severe commandments there is strong motivation to comply because of the weighty consequences. Thus, one’s fidelity to God and His commands is displayed most sharply precisely in the “light” ones.
[1] Svara is an Aramaic word; when it entered Hebrew it became sevara (and therefore feminine). See here.
[2] In several essays I noted that the severity of punishment does not necessarily reflect the severity of the transgression (see e.g. here and here). Above I used punishments only to illustrate the claim that even within biblical law there can be different levels of severity. See more below.
[3] In several places I have noted that in certain cases a moral norm can override a halachic norm. Still, where there is an inherent clash, halacha usually prevails.
Discussion
Apparently Your Honor also did not get to the bottom of your words.
There is reason to argue that there is preference for fulfilling a command that is stated in the Torah over a command that is not stated in the Torah, not because of the essence but because of something more fundamental. Every time a person is expected to do something and does not do it, there are two defects in his “non-action”: (a) a lack in the action itself (after all, he did not do it), (b) rebellion against what is expected of him—that is, he did something positive through the non-action—he rebelled. The second part that exists in non-action, the part of rebellion, is more problematic when he was commanded directly than when he merely understands that he is expected to act that way. Does the Rabbi agree?
And by the way, it is interesting that the Rabbi cites a collection of essays by R. A. W.; on most of what is said there, the Rabbi disagrees in an extreme way.
That is of course the obvious reasoning, as I wrote. I raised another possibility.
If I disagree with someone on certain matters, must I reject everything he has and boycott him?
Regarding the second claim, you are of course right. Personally, it is hard for me to read that collection of essays; it is the book that produced most of our stupid answers in matters of faith. (Though Qovetz Shiurim is dear to me.)
As for the first claim, I did not quite understand. This reasoning is correct in itself; it is a priori. Why assume another proposal?
No need to be offended. It is not that deep. An obligation is something non-voluntary at its root; that is the concept of obligation. Therefore, there is no such thing as more obligatory and less obligatory except in relation to other obligations when there is a conflict.
I think you mean his Ikveta DeMeshicha, not Qovetz Ma’amarim.
Where did you see offense? You amused me greatly (because indeed it is not that deep, as you wrote). The argument itself is absurd. What connection is there between non-voluntariness and the claim that there cannot be different levels?
Now an example occurred to me. Secondary legislation (regulations issued by a ministry director-general or a police officer) is less binding than primary legislation. Simply speaking, the difference is in the level of obligation, not in the level of severity. A police officer’s regulations can cost lives.
Although the comparison between civic obligations and halakhic obligations is incorrect, even the example you gave is irrelevant.
The distinction between the types of legislation stems from the legislative system, in which primary legislation is intended to regulate the broadest and most fundamental issues, whereas secondary legislation is meant to provide a more focused and practical response for implementing the fundamental rules. This has nothing to do with degree of obligation but with the method of a constitutional system.
But to the point, the concept of a halakhic “obligation,” which is personal, is fundamentally different from the concept of a civic “obligation.”
Hello and blessings.
“The obligation to observe all the halakhot is the same”—seemingly, one should add the word “obligation” at the end.
By the way, I still find it difficult to fully grasp the Rav’s view that legal reasoning is a “binding system” parallel to morality and Torah. It seems to me that all legal reasoning does is merely *define* what is mine and what belongs to the other (the burden of proof is on the claimant, ownership belongs to whoever created something, etc.), but the system that obligates me to act according to those definitions is not the legal system but the moral system, which includes not taking things that are not mine.
And according to this, it is again difficult for me: why do you always say that secular people have nothing that obligates them to be moral, and only religious people do (the general discussion with the professor and so on)? After all, all that same philosophical gratitude does is merely define that I am obligated to the One who created me, just as the legal system defines that something belongs to someone; and on top of that comes the moral system and says that one may not take things that are not his, etc. I would be glad for a fuller explanation of your approach on this.
No. The wording is correct. The obligation is the same, meaning it is the same obligation as the previous one. It is indeed an expression that at first glance sounds strange, but as far as I know it is correct and that is how one should say it.
In the Talmud, reasoning establishes not only a legal and proprietary infrastructure but other things as well. For example, there is an obligation to recite a blessing before food. Moreover, even regarding property law I proved that this is not only a definition but also a legal obligation (a norm) that predates halakhah.
I did not understand your question about secular morality. I argue that without belief in God there is no source or validity for obligations at all, and for moral obligations in particular. So what does it mean to a secular person that “the moral system says such and such”? Let it say so. The bomsilipotitic system also says such and such. So what? See my article 456 on this. Your argument strikes me as roughly similar to the following claim: my obligation to the law is a moral commitment to the laws of the elected government in the society in which I live. Legislation itself is only an infrastructure toward which that obligation is directed. And from this it follows that even without a law or legislator there is a moral obligation to law.
More power to you. A. According to your words, can one say at all that one obligation is greater than another (and not only with regard to mitzvot)? Because from what you said I understood that this whole definition—that there is something one is more obligated to fulfill—is meaningless: what does it mean that I am more obligated, if all obligations are equal? And on the substance of the matter, if a mitzvah has a higher value, is my obligation to fulfill it not greater? That is, as it were, the Holy One, blessed be He, “cares” more that I fulfill a mitzvah of higher value, so that the obligation is seemingly greater.
B. From the law of “the lesser of two evils first” (Yoma 83a), which is determined by the punishment (the baraita there and as Rashi explains s.v. tevel), it is seemingly proven that the severity of the punishment indicates the severity of the transgression.
C. What you wrote in explaining the words of Tosafot HaRosh, that one who is not commanded and does nevertheless fulfills the “essence” of the mitzvah and therefore receives reward—even though he did not write this explicitly, it is nevertheless an obvious conclusion from his words, for if not, why does he receive reward? Yet his wording there is difficult, for he wrote: “for the Holy One, blessed be He, needs nothing from all the mitzvot,” as if he wanted to exclude what you wrote, and to say that there is no reason at all for the mitzvot (as held by some thinkers among the Torah scholars in Guide of the Perplexed III:26), but only the fulfillment of God’s command. But if so, why does he receive reward?
In the sugya of a positive command overriding a negative command at the beginning of Yevamot, many of the later authorities discuss this at length (of course not in the Rabbi’s terminology).
A. I suggested several possible practical implications. But even if this distinction has no direct implications, it adds understanding to the halakhic map in general.
The assumption that if something is more severe then God cares more about it is reasonable. Does that itself mean that I have a stronger obligation to fulfill it? Not certain.
B. There are additional proofs that there is a connection between the severity of the transgression and the severity of the punishment. By the way, usually “the lesser of two evils first” requires sharp categorical distinctions. Rashi there ranks a positive command against death at the hands of Heaven, not lashes against death.
C. Indeed. In the parallel Ritva there is an even more problematic formulation. He speaks there about the fact that you nevertheless exerted yourself even though you were not commanded, and does not speak about the benefit of the act itself. Perhaps the Rosh also means that. But the logical direction is present in them.
I did not understand: why regarding legal obligation do you say that it not only defines what is mine and what belongs to my fellow but also obligates me to act accordingly, whereas regarding the moral system you say that it only defines what is right or good to do and what is not, but does not obligate me to behave that way?
What connection is there between the two? Without God, neither is binding; with Him, both are.
Why is it binding only with God? Surely you do not mean that you are obligated because He commanded you, for you say that what obligates us to obey Him is “the legal reasoning” (philosophical gratitude), and if so, necessarily the command is not what obligates you to that reasoning, since it is the cause of the reasoning. And if you mean that the “existence of God” is what causes you to be obligated to that reasoning—in my humble opinion that is utterly incomprehensible. Rather, necessarily you have some reasoning (philosophical gratitude—legal reasoning) to which you are obligated even without God, and consequently, just as you are obligated to that reasoning, so too you are obligated to the reasoning that “the right thing is to do good” (“morality”).
Likewise, one cannot say that without God you think all reasonings are merely feelings and not something real, for you have said several times (see for example in the discussion with the professor there) that there is no dispute that everyone—believers and non-believers alike—knows that morality etc. is “real,” and the discussion was only about validity.
And I cannot understand what is unclear in my words; I asked several people who also read your writings—and they understood my question.
“And if so, necessarily the command is not what obligates you to that reasoning, since it is the cause of the reasoning” = “And if so, necessarily the command is what does not obligate you to that reasoning, since it is the cause of obedience to the command.”
The legal reasoning (ontic gratitude) is not an explanation or an argument but a description of a state of affairs. A divine command is binding simply by virtue of the fact that God commanded. The description of that obligation is ontic gratitude. This is roughly like saying that moral imperatives are binding because that is what is moral. You understand that this is not a justification but a description.
Moral imperatives are not binding unless there is a binding source behind them. Therefore, the fact that you understand that such-and-such is moral behavior is not enough to obligate. Certainly not enough to come with complaints against someone who does not have that reasoning.
I will explain it from another angle. The fact that people feel moral obligation is not enough to obligate them, because without God who legislates it, that feeling is nothing but an evolutionary construct and no more. Such a construct does not obligate me, even if it exists.
I did not read the whole article. If I understood correctly, among other things you understand a priori that there cannot be different levels of obligation. So if I understood correctly, my question is relevant. If not, you can ignore it.
Why determine that there are no different levels of obligation? A child understands that there are things Father allows and things Father very, very much does not allow. He is obligated in both because of his father’s authority and not because of his father’s motive, and yet (he perceives that) A is a little forbidden and B is very forbidden.
In my humble opinion there is no way to determine this on a logical basis. Good and evil are primitive concepts, and as such they can be dichotomous or quantitative, or whatever they turn out to be. We know these concepts from within ourselves, in a “synthetic” way, and if we want to understand their nature we simply have to dig into ourselves.
You did not get to the bottom of the issue and therefore got tangled up. One cannot discuss the degree of obligation to fulfill some obligation when it is an “obligation,” since obligation means non-voluntary by its very nature. One can only discuss the severity of the matter as an obligation relative to other obligations, that is, rules of override, such as a rabbinic obligation that is overridden by a Torah obligation; an obligation in which one is already engaged, which overrides other obligations even though they are more severe, because leaving one mitzvah is considered and appears like neglect of the mitzvah; the laws of “be killed rather than transgress,” where the obligation to fulfill it is so great that it overrides the principle of “and live by them.”