Q&A: What Is This Idea That God Has Abandoned the Earth?
What Is This Idea That God Has Abandoned the Earth?
Question
Hello Rabbi,
Here is a discussion that might interest you:
What is the idea mentioned there about "God has abandoned the earth"? Where is it taken from?
Answer
This comes from the Oral Torah (a lesson I gave in the kollel). My claim is that the course of the world proceeds according to the laws of nature, and the Holy One, blessed be He, does not run it. At most, He intervenes on rare occasions, if at all. True, in the past He apparently was involved, but just as miracles and prophecy came to an end, so too His involvement came to an end. Therefore, for example, the Holocaust was not a punishment for anything, but rather the Nazis' decision to murder Jews.
See a bit here:
https://mikyab.net/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A9-%D7%90%D7%97%D7%A8-%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%94%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%9D/
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Questioner:
A response to the main points of your argument
I think the root of the “problem” lies in the huge gap between what you wrote to me privately in the email and the way the same ideas came out in the summary you gave to Odiya. On the very same issue, one time you come across as “shocking,” and the second time as “measured and reasonable.”
A. Your explanatory remarks attached to the email
"This comes from the Oral Torah (a lesson I gave in the kollel). My claim is that the course of the world proceeds according to the laws of nature, and the Holy One, blessed be He, does not run it. At most, He intervenes on rare occasions, if at all. True, in the past He apparently was involved, but just as miracles and prophecy came to an end, so too His involvement came to an end. Therefore, for example, the Holocaust was not a punishment for anything, but rather the Nazis' decision to murder Jews."
B. Your summary to Odiya
"My answer to Odiya, then, is that God is present in everything we look at. He has no need or desire to reveal Himself, because He is revealed before us all the time. In an age of mature humanity, that revelation does not take place through miracles and transcendent events, but rather through the laws and natural order, and through the norms and values He gave us in His Torah. Those who do not see this simply need to grow up. And those who do see it certainly do not need to indulge in a childish romanticism of a miraculous relationship with the transcendent."
Regarding part A, which seems very problematic to me:
- "that the course of the world proceeds according to the laws of nature, and the Holy One, blessed be He, does not run it" – This is the explicit Aristotelian philosophical approach that Judah Halevi attacked vehemently (almost Spinozist). Rabbi Aviner calls the role you assign to God “the chairman of the universe association, invited only to sign the report at the end of the year.” The Holy One, blessed be He, does not manage nature, but He is outside the natural world and is its Creator. If you agree with that—that is, if you deny holding a Spinozist position—why call it “does not run it”? Why not call it “runs it in a way that makes it look as if there is no one running it”? Exactly as you wrote in part B. If you agree to that formulation, that is the root of the difference between what you think and what you write or say.
To paraphrase, God's greatness in the Greek approach is expressed through the intensity of His distance (He doesn't know, isn't familiar, etc.), whereas the Jewish approach says, “With God's help, the cholent will turn out well”—that is, bringing Him into the cholent pot expresses His greatness. There are countless sayings of the Sages that explain His hiddenness as humility, or, in your language (version B), as an educational God.
- "At most, He intervenes on rare occasions, if at all"—what does “intervenes” mean? Is His hiddenness not itself His intervention? In the analogy of the teacher and the students, there are three situations: a teacher in the classroom, a teacher who left a written text as a lesson but is absent, and a classroom with no teacher and no text from the teacher. Even in situation 3, where the students ask, so what are we supposed to do today in the teacher's absence—that is super-active intervention. Because they are in a classroom in a school, and they are obligated to something. Why add “if at all”? It sounds awful!!
- "But just as miracles and prophecy came to an end, so too His involvement came to an end," How do you know that miracles have ended? Why tie this to the end of the age of prophecy? And even if it is true, to call it “His involvement came to an end”? You are actually idealizing the state of “hiding of the face,” whereas the Torah treats that as a punishment!!
4."Therefore, for example, the Holocaust was not a punishment for anything, but rather the Nazis' decision to murder Jews." Where did your two levels of explanation disappear to? And how do you know what goes on in the divine system of considerations? Doesn't this contradict, for example, the whole section of Bechukotai?
By contrast, your summary remarks to Odiya sit well with the heart, do not arouse antagonism, and it seems to me that they also reflect your true opinion when you momentarily abandon the desire to shock or to be crystal clear, as befits your rationalist approach. Do not underestimate the aspiration for things to sit well with the heart—of course, not at the expense of speaking the truth.
Also on the deep philosophical level, there really are no miracles and no nature; it is all just a matter of terminology. Everything is from the blessed God. The aspiration to rebuild the Temple and restore the institution of prophecy after the world has reached maturity, in your language, seems unnecessary according to your approach. However, despite Maimonides' words, in my opinion closing the circle is intended to answer that part of humanity and Judaism that lives its whole life under the impression that everything is nature. Will fire descend from heaven on the day the altar is dedicated? Will the crimson thread function on Yom Kippur? Yes and yes, and that would not be a regression to the realm of childish faith. Quite the contrary, it would be the answer to those who have not matured enough. Even Maimonides, with his principle that the world follows its natural course, speaks about building the Temple, and I would add: and about all the miracles that occurred there at every step.
There is no obligation, of course, to accept my “prophecy,” but it does not contradict the vision of the prophets, and in any case it offers an interpretation of reality.
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Rabbi:
It is hard for me to conduct the discussion here because it is long and requires definitions and detailed logical analysis. I think you are very mistaken already on the conceptual level (if He runs everything through the laws, that is what it means that He does not intervene. Everything else is semantics). I spell all this out in my books and answer all these claims, and it is hard to elaborate here.
I am not particularly impressed by quotations from the Kuzari, and certainly not by Rabbi Aviner, and not even by the Sages (in the book I explain why they have authority only in Jewish law and no more than that, and even there not because they are always right but because we accepted their authority upon ourselves). Even if they hold that view (and in my opinion the Sages did not hold that view, certainly not all of them), I disagree with them on this matter. And if I am Greek, then I am Greek. Titles and labels are not arguments.
But all the quotations here do indeed describe my position accurately.
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Questioner:
If He runs everything through laws that He legislated, and He also intervenes in them from time to time, then by definition that is called not being involved? I am astonished! But fine, let us say that is a matter of definition—what definition would you give, according to your view, to His relation to the world? “He abandoned the earth”? How could that be?
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Rabbi:
My claim is that contrary to the accepted view, God does not heal the sick and does not free the imprisoned (except perhaps in very rare cases—and even that seems highly doubtful to me). Therefore there is no point in praying to Him for this or that need, except in extreme cases when there is no other way out; nor is there reason to thank Him for healing or any other “miracle” (see the latest column on my site about the law of small numbers). My claim is that the laws of nature determine what will happen, and even if the Holy One, blessed be He, set them up (which is of course entirely acceptable to me), and perhaps even still operates them to this day (which I doubt says anything meaningful, in my opinion), there are still no deviations from them. Therefore the philosophical question whether He is constantly operating them or whether they operate on their own is not really important. It is semantics. The substantive claim is that there is no deviation from them (except for rare cases, if even that), and in that sense today we are on autopilot and not under the hands of the Holy One, blessed be He.
"God has abandoned the earth" sounds to me like not a bad description of that picture. But I do not see much point in arguing about terminology and expressions.
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Questioner:
Thank you for the clarification. As a loving friend, I am telling you that terminology matters. See how we clarified the issue itself and it is not actually in dispute. I know you; others may know you less. That terrible sentence has a negative connotation and an awful meaning regarding the Holocaust. You draw fire even בלי the terminology. I know you do not care and that truth is what matters. I am certainly not trying to educate or preach.
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Rabbi:
On the contrary, my remarks are mainly in connection with the Holocaust. Indeed, God has abandoned the earth. He has no connection whatsoever to the Holocaust. The Nazis did it by their own decision.
Discussion on Answer
Honorable Rabbi Michi—you referred me to a responsum, I read it and was left with nothing.
I can say that I remain with my own view: I do not think God has abandoned the earth, and someone who feels that way will not survive! I'll explain:
Many studies show that when you have something to hold on to—whether something physical or spiritual* (money, property, utility, satisfaction, hope, pleasure, and so on)—you survive better. A person who has no faith has no reason to understand what he is doing here. [As the poet said: “Why do I need black boxes?” or any other commandment to observe.] In contrast, those who believe in Him, blessed be His name forever—in something so right and true, living, good, abundant in kindness and truth, the Giver of the Torah, Creator of the world full of all things, who rewards the good and repays all the arrogant evildoers—He gives them strength and a reason to live, not for the sake of black boxes, but because you have to do something in order to merit something (observing the commandments grants us, with His help, the hidden world).
If people believe in Him, blessed be He forever, and do not know His place, He has already told us: “What house could you build for Me… but to this one I will look: to the poor and broken-spirited one who trembles at My word.” Don’t look for God—He will find you, provided you tremble at His word. What could be better than that? He doesn’t need Waze or GPS. Why would He find you? So that you won’t have to look for Him. He saves you the trouble involved in that.
In addition, He promised us: “In all your ways know Him, and He will straighten your paths.” It's worth reading the next chapter:
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%99_%D7%92/%D7%98%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D#.D7.95
(*) People in the Holocaust survived only because they hoped for salvation; the power of hope kept them alive. That's the example.
In summary,
We are trapped inside a covenant we cannot escape from. “Return to Me and I will return to you, says the Lord of Hosts. Since the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me and I will return to you, says the Lord of Hosts. But you say: How shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet you rob Me. But you say: How have we robbed You? In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, and yet you rob Me, the whole nation of you. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this, says the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you blessing until there is no more need. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sake, so that it will not destroy the fruit of your ground, and your vine in the field shall not miscarry, says the Lord of Hosts. And all nations shall call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land, says the Lord of Hosts. Your words have been harsh against Me, says the Lord. But you say: What have we spoken against You? You have said: It is vain to serve God, and what profit is it that we have kept His charge?” (For example: why do we need black boxes?)
In short: “The Lord is near to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him in truth. He fulfills the desire of those who fear Him; He hears their cry and saves them.”
A suggestion: the real poet said, “I have set the Lord before me always, for He is at my right hand; I shall not be shaken!”
“Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, and the Lord listened and heard, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who feared the Lord and esteemed His name. And they shall be Mine, says the Lord of Hosts, on the day that I make them My treasured possession, and I will spare them as a man spares his son who serves him. Then you shall again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him. For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble, and the coming day shall burn them up, says the Lord of Hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness shall rise with healing in its wings” (it's worth reading the whole chapter again https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%90%D7%9B%D7%99_%D7%92/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%91#.D7.96
Whoever is far from Him—this is the time to draw near. “Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.” Do not be like your fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation—a generation that did not understand My ways.
Amir Hozeh asked:
Why were the reasons for the commandments not revealed? Maybe so that we would serve God sincerely, with a whole heart—“Cast your burden on the Lord, and He will sustain you; He will never allow the righteous to be shaken”—or so that we would search for them ourselves. And for that too we will receive reward. Greater is one who serves out of love than one who serves out of fear, because the one who serves out of fear is thinking of his own benefit, to be saved from distress and trouble. “And serve Him with a whole heart and a willing soul.” And some answer cleverly: the reasons for the commandments are themselves the protection of our bodies—observe the commandments of the boxes and your hands will be protected; go do a commandment and your feet will be protected; go study Torah and your mouth will be protected; and so on. For every commandment there is a bodily organ connected to it. Is there a more wonderful reason than that? Just as a person is like the tree of the field, so too the fruits and leaves and drinks have taste and healing and special power for curing and for the benefit of bodily health—by His will, of course.
What is the role of the black boxes? It is written explicitly: “And it shall be for a sign upon your hand and for a memorial between your eyes, so that the Torah of the Lord may be in your mouth.” So that the Torah of the Lord may be in your mouth.
Moshe, the question of survivability is not necessarily connected to the question of truth. It is also psychologically hard to survive without speaking slander or eating cream cakes. That does not mean those things are necessarily good or healthy.
(Note: it's better to write more briefly and more focused. It's hard to respond to something this long, especially since some of it is not really necessary for the argument or the question.)
Rabbi,
A lot of water has passed under the bridge here. One thing I did not see is why your starting point is that there is no individual providence at different levels, as in the view of Maimonides and Nachmanides?
This is explained elsewhere (search the site). There is no great profundity here, aside from the fact that we do not see any of it, and aside from the fact that it contradicts the scientific view that particles do not move unless there is a physical cause for it.
Hello Rabbi,
I wanted to ask: if everything is known and planned in advance, why is providence needed at all?
(And even if God does not know what a person will choose, He knows the options available to him and planned in advance that if he chooses this, then this will happen, and if he chooses otherwise, then something else will happen.)
Good evening, Rabbi,
On the one hand you say God has abandoned the earth, on the other hand you say He has no connection to the Holocaust, on the third hand you say there is no providence—but what about justice? If the Creator asks our judges to judge justly, as we saw in Parashat Mishpatim, how could He abandon His world and hide His face from the wicked? If I'm not mistaken, this is the third time today I'm using the verse: “Unless the Lord guards the city, its watchman stays awake in vain”—does the Holy One, blessed be He, ignore our destruction because of the Germans' will? “He will never let the righteous be shaken!” If He demands of us, “Justice, justice shall you pursue,” all the more so He Himself would act justly—fine words should be matched by fine deeds.
No father would leave his firstborn son under the supervision of the Other Side… all the more so not the Creator.
If you still think that God has abandoned the earth and does not watch over it, then what is the reason in your opinion, when did it begin, and how can we restore providence immediately?
What can the Rabbi say about “the righteous is taken away because of the evil”—is there a connection to providence and abandonment?
From the story of Job we saw that God did not allow Satan to touch his soul, and it is clear that every person's soul is in God's hand! What can the Rabbi say in defense of his position?