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Q&A: What Is the Source of Your Moral Outlook?

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This is an English translation (via GPT-5.4). Read the original Hebrew version.

What Is the Source of Your Moral Outlook?

Question

Hello,
I read parts of your impressive trilogy, and I shared with friends my feeling that I did not find in it any real challenge to my worldview, which could be defined as Haredi–Hardali.
In other words, you built a wonderful structure that probably suits hundreds of thousands of Jews today who hold a certain Western moral worldview and are troubled by all sorts of things in Judaism today, and you came and showed them, step by step, that they do not need to choose between two bad options; rather, they can remain with their worldview, because it is definitely possible to remain a believing Jew without violating even the slightest point. If they are troubled by attitudes toward gentiles, women, LGBT people, and secular Jews, then you offered them an elegant and sophisticated way which, in one sentence, says that today’s gentiles and secular Jews and women and LGBT people are not the same people to whom the prohibitions or the rules of Jewish law applied.
It is not hard to argue with that. It is not hard to say that it is implausible that the prohibition applies to someone who has no inclination, because someone who has no inclination is usually repelled by it, and it is not plausible that specifically such a person is the one the Torah prohibited; and from the plain sense of the words of the Sages as well, this revolutionary distinction does not seem to appear, and if they held it they should have stated it explicitly. It is not hard to say that the reason for the laws that distinguish between a gentile and a Jew, or between a secular and a religious Jew, is not only that the object itself is some kind of abomination, but because Jewish law wants to create a clear distinction and prevent religious influence, and create distance; and for example regarding secular Jews, it may be that they are coerced, but precisely because they are coerced in belief they are more threatening and endanger the community more, and there is more reason to distance ourselves from them and apply to them all the rabbinic laws, which do not necessarily stem from an essential definition of a thoroughly wicked person but from a desire to create distance and prevent influence.
(Regarding women, this is the most radical practical proposal in the book; the LGBT issue is presented there more as a possible line of thought, because it deals with a pure Torah law, but it is really the most plausible, because everyone is prepared to allow women to testify by enactment, so continuing to the next stage and allowing them as a matter of basic law is a formal leap, not a practical one.)a0
What I am trying to say is that a Haredi person who reads your books will say: okay, this Jew has a certain moral outlook, and various things bother him, so he found a non-Reform way to solve what bothers him. More power to you. There is no real challenge here, for the simple reason that the moral outlook underlying the entire book is not necessarily the moral outlook of the Sages. If the Sages and the medieval authorities were not troubled by most of the moral questions raised here—regarding a mamzer, or LGBT people, or the beautiful captive woman, or gentiles, or secular Jews, or women, or converts—then that is a clear sign that their moral outlook was different. They certainly believed that a person should be upright and good, and they held that proper conduct precedes Torah, but their outlook was that the good is not only material good but primarily the good of closeness to God—”for closeness to God is good for me”—and therefore one’s attitude toward someone whose goal is closeness to God is different from one’s attitude toward someone for whom that is not the goal, even if he is the nicest, most wonderful, most pleasant person in the world. The Western moral outlook, which sees humane behavior and pleasant, considerate behavior as the most important thing, is an outlook that a simple reading of the Sages and the medieval authorities shows they did not hold. The Western worldview, according to which morality is only direct harm to another person and not harm to the integrity of the world that God created, with pleasures intended for benefit and not just for fun, was not the outlook of the Sages. They were not troubled by this because they never saw a moral problem in distinguishing between people and between sexes. In their view, the world has a purpose: to fulfill God’s will. Part of God’s will is that a person be good and upright, but the primary criterion is what advances that purpose. Man was created for the sake of fulfilling the Torah, not that the Torah was created for the sake of man’s welfare. At any rate, from man’s side he must behave in a way that does what Jewish law says, and from God’s side He wants man’s good and happiness.a0
In my opinion, if one were to ask Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach—who, I think, no one disputes was a good person with fine manners—what he thought about LGBT people, he would say that in his opinion this is not only a religious problem, as you wrote as if it were obvious, but a human problem, because it goes against normality (the term of course belongs to Rabbi Tzvi Tau, though he holds that therefore even secular people ought to reject it, while I think that in a classic secular outlook the violation of normality is definitely overridden by the personal happiness of that LGBT person), and it harms the family and society in general, and also turns pleasures into a tool for ourselves rather than a tool for benefit and for fulfilling God’s will, in line with the attitude of quite a few of the medieval authorities toward the whole realm of marital relations; and even those who disagree admit that it is not proper when detached from holiness and benefit.
The fact that for you, simply, there is no moral problem with LGBT people proves clearly to me that this is not an innocent presentation of “proper conduct precedes Torah,” on the basis of which you built an entire approach, but a new conception of morality that is entirely a Western-Christian influence, and not the moral outlook of the Sages and the medieval authorities. This new morality assumes that man’s welfare is the only thing that matters, whereas in the Torah’s outlook man’s welfare matters, but the main question is what God wants and what serves His will.
And now to my question: from where do you derive that a person may hold a new worldview that is influenced from outside Jewish law, and on that basis come and find ways to change Jewish law? It is easier to change women’s disqualification from testimony for a technical reason—that today there is no reason to prevent women from testifying because it would only benefit the religious court—than to change the slightest point regarding gentiles as a result of a moral worldview that the Sages did not hold.
So yes, someone who believes that this is morality and that this is God’s will will obviously conclude that this is what God wants, and therefore it is obvious to him that nowadays such an attitude toward gentiles and secular Jews and women and LGBT people cannot be right. But when he notices and discovers that he thinks this way because he is influenced from outside, from where does he get permission to change Jewish law?

Answer

Greetings.
First, you described my goal and its implementation well. I truly did not intend to convert anyone from his opinion and religion, but only to offer a reasonable and well-grounded way to remain committed to the system if these things do trouble you (and in my opinion, they should). In general, I think the burden of proof is on you, because what I am proposing is the ordinary logic, and it is the conservatives who are proposing novel theses. Beyond that, someone who proposes various scriptural decrees obviously cannot be challenged. After all, about everything he can answer that it is a decree of Scripture and its reason is hidden from us. The question is whether and to what extent one needs to resort to that. Beyond that, on most of these points, in my opinion most of the public thinks this way, except that it forces itself to twist around because it assumes this does not fit the tradition. I offer a way that shows there is a fit.
By the way, I think the mechanism of change that I proposed regarding gentiles is only one detail, and you turned it into the essence of the book. There are many other things in it as well, and they are completely independent.
As for your question at the end: there is no worldview that is not influenced from outside. The assumption that this is possible is a conservative illusion (like the story about my uncle who insisted that Abaye and Rava studied in Yiddish). The Sages too, whose outlook you do not want to change, were influenced by their world. I do not see any holiness in the external world of Babylonia in the first centuries CE over the outlooks accepted today. Just as the customs of Krakow that the Rema inserted into the Shulchan Arukh do not really interest me. I do not live in Krakow.
And beyond all that, there are points where significant difficulties definitely arise in the conservative outlooks as well—both because they do not fit the sources and in issues where they are not logical (as in the question of providence). But a scriptural decree will answer everything.

Discussion on Answer

Benjamin Gurlin (2020-01-29)

What are those “conservative approaches”? Has the Rabbi defined them anywhere?

Daniel (2020-01-29)

What you wrote, that most of the public thinks this way—it is hard to ignore the Haredi and Hardali public, which overwhelmingly does not think this way. As for the difficulties in the conservative outlook, I did not hide behind a scriptural decree at all; on the contrary, in the only place where the discussion is about a scriptural decree, that is the place where it is easiest to identify with your words, because that is a technical matter and not an ideological one. The discussion is about the reason for the rabbinic laws: did they prohibit because gentiles and secular Jews are such-and-such, or because they wanted us to distance ourselves from them so they would not influence us religiously? As for the questions of providence, that is a completely different issue, because if Maimonides did not believe in individual providence, then it is obviously entirely legitimate to say there is no individual providence, and that is a completely different topic from what, in my eyes, seems to be the most significant practical innovation in the book—which you too called the application, because it really is the application of the whole worldview—and that is the mechanism of change that you applied to gentiles and secular Jews and converts, etc. Here you acted according to your logic, which in your eyes is the ordinary logic, and whoever departs from it is the innovator; but in my opinion that logic contradicts the logic of the Sages, and you too half-admit this, except that you say there is no preference for the outlooks that existed in Babylonia because we are not in Babylonia. Of course, such a revolutionary innovation becomes possible only because of your additional innovation that Judaism is only Jewish law and not worldview, and in my opinion that itself is not at all necessary. But even if so, when trying to understand the reason for the rabbinic laws regarding gentiles and secular Jews, it is ridiculous to ignore the worldview of those who made the law when dealing with its interpretation. If the Sages had a worldview that is today’s conservative worldview, a worldview that goes against your logic, which is the ordinary logic today, then it stands to reason that this lay at the basis of their rulings regarding gentiles and secular Jews. Consequently, if we are coming to interpret the Sages, then clearly the conservative outlook has the upper hand, and the starting assumption underlying the practical part of the trilogy is not ordinary logic but a new worldview, and to change Jewish law on its basis—Jewish law that was built on a completely different worldview—is wrong at the most basic level of textual interpretation and understanding the lawgiver.

Daniel (2020-01-29)

Just to sharpen the point: I do not hold my view because once the Sages thought this way in Babylonia, but because I think that even if they were alive today, they would say the same thing. Since from the totality of their outlook it emerges that it is entirely reasonable that they would relate to gentiles and secular Jews and the like in a certain way in order to prevent influence, and not only because of the essential status of the specific person in question, therefore that reason is relevant today as well. There is a classic interpretive dispute here: do these laws stem from the behavior of gentiles and secular Jews, or from concern about influence? The outlook in Babylonia fully allows the interpretation that the second rationale also stood in the background, and therefore the mechanism of change is mistaken on the interpretive level. Not because in Babylonia they thought this way, but because those who thought this way in Babylonia would think this way today too. (So this is not necessarily similar to the mechanism regarding slaves, where once it was moral and therefore the Torah permitted it, and today it is not moral and therefore it is forbidden, because there there is no additional rationale such as influence, only a moral aspect.)

Michi (2020-01-30)

Benjamin, I did not understand. When I refer in the books to some conservative view, I describe it.

Daniel, it seems to me that everything was explained.

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