Q&A: Sadigura
Sadigura
Question
Hello Rabbi,
I am a Sadigura Hasid going back several generations, and now His Holiness, our master the Rebbe of blessed and holy memory, has passed away.
I live in Jerusalem, and I am unsure which court to affiliate with.
There are many considerations in both directions.
Of course, in some ways it would be more convenient to accept the authority of the Sadigura Rebbe of Jerusalem, which would make things easier and avoid the need to travel to Bnei Brak every holiday.
On the other hand, the late Rebbe appointed his youngest son, the Rebbe of Bnei Brak, to continue “with the full force of leadership,” and apparently transferred to him all the powers to bring salvation and lead the community, since he is a worthy vessel to receive the blessing.
By what rules would you recommend that I make this decision? And who, in your opinion, is more fit for leadership?
Answer
I assume this is a troll. But since you’ve apparently already been alive for generations upon generations (and have been a Sadigura Hasid since before that Hasidic dynasty even came into existence, since it too hasn’t existed for generations upon generations), I owe you due respect (“you shall rise before the aged”), and so I’ll answer anyway, and whatever the Lord puts in my mouth, that I shall speak.
I have to add that after the Rebbe said his piece, and his wife also said hers, I’m very flattered that the privilege of deciding was given specifically to little me. Were I not afraid, I would have recommended alternating weekly, like the compromise between Rabbi Elazar ben Azariah and Rabban Gamliel (“whose week was it”). One week in Bnei Brak and one week in Jerusalem. Maybe it would also be worthwhile, once a year or so, to spend a week at home. After all, there is a wife and children, and it’s appropriate to be with them from time to time as well.
Off the top of my head, if I knew them, I’d say it seems to me that the fourth son is the one fit for leadership, and obviously he will bring great and wondrous salvations to you and to the entire generation. But since I don’t know them—I am unworthy.
I’ll add a joke I just heard from Droyanov. He asked: why is it that when a Hasidic rebbe passes away, people say that he “departed”? And he answered, in his own good style: it says in the Talmud, “If someone robbed one of five people and doesn’t know whom he robbed—he places the stolen item before them and departs.” Excellent.
Discussion on Answer
A. I meant that our family has belonged to the court for several generations—my father, my grandfather, my great-grandfather, etc.
B. Why did you write that if you knew the sons, you’d say the fourth one is the one fit for leadership?
C. Since you don’t know the sons, let me ask more generally: by what criteria should one choose a new rebbe, in general and specifically after the previous rebbe passes away?
Rabbi Shulyata, our community’s filter doesn’t allow me to see what you sent.
Regarding point B, I used the link to say that he was joking from beginning to end.
Who was joking?
With God’s help, 13 Elul 5780
To Shlomo — greetings,
It was a favorite saying of the Netivot Shalom to interpret Hillel’s words, “What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow,” in the sense that—while this is of course not the plain meaning—it is very compelling: “What you feel does not connect you to God—do not do;” and by implication, what you feel connects you more to the service of God—that is what you should do.
As I recall, this is what Rabbi Moshe Feinstein said when there was a dispute over succession to the Karlin Rebbeship: a rebbeship is not “authority,” not an office that is halakhically binding, and therefore inheritance is not relevant to it the way it is to the rabbinate of a community. A rebbeship is a matter of a personal bond between rebbe and Hasid; the Hasid feels that this rebbe is the one best suited to his personality, and only the Hasid himself can know that.
With blessings,
Sh. Tz.
By the way, King David also appointed his youngest son, Solomon, as his successor in leadership. Jacob our forefather, too, gave kingship to his fourth son—Judah. Maybe that’s where Rabbi Michael Abraham learned to prefer the fourth son 🙂
Rabbi Michael Abraham emphasized the importance of being with one’s family on the holidays, inspired by the sages of his city, Lod, may it be rebuilt speedily in our days, for Rabbi Eliezer said: “I praise the lazy people who do not leave their homes on the festival,” and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi likewise instructed that even though a person read the Megillah in the synagogue, he should read it again at home in order to discharge the obligation of his household.
Rabbi Michael is like Hillel the Elder, answering every person on every question. One just has to make sure there isn’t someone somewhere right now losing 400 zuz because of it. Much appreciated.
To Shatzal,
I’m not familiar with the words of the Igrot Moshe, but in my opinion they are really not relevant today.
In the past, the institution of the rebbeship served only as a channel for spiritual influence. The rebbe taught a path in the service of God, and helped the Hasid in his spiritual and material troubles through advice and prayer.
Today the rebbes stand at the head of communities, and they hold authority and power. Financially, they own the nonprofit organizations and real estate of the Hasidic group. In terms of influence, they decide who will fill the roles in the community, such as teachers, rabbis, premarital instructors for grooms, and sextons. They establish spiritual regulations (internet filtering) and material ones (reducing wedding expenses), and they can impose sanctions on those who do not obey them (for example, refusing admission to institutions).
To a large extent, they also bring budgets into the community, since by the power of their influence they solicit donations from wealthy people.
See for example the affair of the Satmar Rebbe. His nephew (Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Meisels of Bnei Brak) refused to accept his authority. He stopped his salary, fired him from his post as rosh yeshiva, and banned him from entering all Satmar institutions worldwide.
Therefore, in my opinion, a rebbeship today is authority in every respect, and if inheritance applies to a community rabbinate, then all the more so to a rebbeship.
With God’s help, 13 Elul 5780
The words of Rabbi Moshe Feinstein are brought in the book by Professor Benjamin Brown, Like a Tossed Ship — Karlin Hasidism Between Ascents and Crises, which I don’t have in front of me right now.
With blessings,
Sh. Tz.
Regarding your point that a rebbeship also includes the right to lead the community and the institutions: that is true when discussing which community and institutions will belong to whom. But the questioner here was apparently asking on the personal level. Given that the three brothers will all conduct themselves as rebbes (and apparently there is agreement among them in that direction)—which one should he personally join? And to that I said that in my humble opinion it depends on his personal feeling: where does he feel more elevation in the service of God?
From my experience, I get the impression that in our time, “splitting among righteous leaders is good for them and good for the world.” I remember how much pain there was when Mercaz HaRav split 22 years ago. Today, it seems to me, each faction by itself is larger than the old “united Mercaz HaRav” once was. Every Torah leader finds the audience suited to him and builds his own “empire” 🙂 All the more so in the days of the coronavirus, when division into “capsules” is a great commandment 🙂
Shloimi, I still assume this is trolling, because it’s hard for me to believe you didn’t understand that I was joking, but to remove all doubt (you managed to make me wonder whether your question was in fact serious and not mere trolling), I’ll explain why I was joking.
My opinion of rebbes in general is that anyone who follows them, and certainly if he travels to them every Sabbath, is simply doing something foolish. They have no significance for me whatsoever, so asking me for criteria to choose a rebbe sounded like trolling.
And if someone here made 400 zuz off this, I expect 50% cash on the barrelhead.
With God’s help, 13 Elul 5780
To the respondent — greetings,
A careful reading of the question would have revealed to the respondent that this is not about traveling to the rebbe every Sabbath, but rather about “traveling every holiday from Jerusalem to Bnei Brak.” Long live the small difference 🙂
With blessings,
Sh. Tz.
And usually when people travel for a holiday, they travel with the whole family and stay with relatives. The tish takes place after everyone has eaten the Friday night meal at home. And here we are talking about rebbes who are Torah scholars, for whom the rule certainly applies that “it is a commandment to go greet one’s rabbi on the festival.”
In my professional opinion, the answer is clear: one should go by the “traffic light” and prefer a “green” rebbe 🙂
With the blessing of “Gamzu for the good,”
Roni the Projector
Shatzal,
You’re not familiar with the phenomenon.
In large Hasidic groups, the families are sprawling and live all over the country, and even abroad. Relatives do not have the ability to host whole large families with many children near the center of the Hasidic group.
What happens is that whoever can afford it rents an apartment near the rebbe and drags his whole family there on the eve of the holiday, by car or public transportation, with all the food they need.
Think of a family of ten people that has to arrange an apartment in the heart of Bnei Brak for the two days of Rosh Hashanah in order to pray with the Vizhnitz Rebbe, for example. It’s really not easy, and not cheap.
Most people can’t do that, and what happens is that the wife stays home with the small children and runs the holiday table by herself. Meanwhile the father and the older boys sleep in a “lodging hall” in the institution buildings, on folding beds, and get food at a basic-minus level from the institutions’ public kitchens, and even that usually costs no small amount.
With God’s help, 14 Elul 5780
To Aharon — greetings,
According to what you say, it turns out that the proposal of the Sadigura Rebbetzin to divide the rebbeship among three of the sons—one serving in Bnei Brak, one in Jerusalem, and one in London—makes things easier for the Hasidim’s wives, since their husbands will not need to travel long distances.
In any case, we await the rebuilding of the Temple speedily in our days, and then everyone—men, women, and children—will go up to Jerusalem three times a year and stay in the homes of Jerusalem’s residents in exchange for the hides of the offerings, which will be given to the hosts.
With blessings,
Sh. Tz.
Are you proposing a conspiracy for a feminist scheme?
With God’s help, 14 Elul 5780
To Aharon — greetings,
The “feminist scheme” is explained in the Talmud, Bava Metzia 59, which instructs a Jewish man to consult his wife on household matters, and some say also on worldly matters. While men tend toward principled thinking, aiming to achieve justice even if “the law pierces the mountain,” women tend toward practical thinking that brings the principles to implementation in a way that leaves everyone as satisfied as possible. Men tend toward strict justice, while women aspire to mediation and compromise.
What was clear to me from the outset was that the Sadigura Rebbetzin was concerned that all the sons should be satisfied, and therefore she proposed that both the eldest son and the middle son be appointed as rebbes, with the full consent of the youngest son, to whom “the force of leadership” was given by the father’s command (and this wording itself is precise: a certain level of leadership can also belong to the other brothers, but “the force of leadership” would be in the hands of the youngest son, just as Jacob said concerning Ephraim and Manasseh that the firstborn would succeed, but his younger brother would become greater than he).
What became newly apparent to me following the information you brought about the hardship women face in traveling to the rebbe on the holidays is that perhaps there was another deeper dimension to the Sadigura Rebbetzin’s proposal. Not only that the sons would be satisfied, but that the Hasidim’s wives would be satisfied as well.
With blessings,
Sh. Tz.
The instruction of the sages to consult women in household matters and worldly matters because a woman is more practical and more aware of human nature also rests on the conduct of the patriarchs. Abraham was commanded: “Whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her voice.” Jacob, although he received instruction from an angel of the Lord to return to his land, called his wives and sought their permission and counsel. Isaac too, “at the end of the day,” accepted the outline proposed by Rebecca.
By the way, Rabbi Michael Abraham’s suggestion to cling to the fourth son, though said jokingly, is in my humble opinion correct. I saw the sons’ signatures on the letter of agreement. The handwriting of the fourth son, Rabbi Eliyahu Elikim Getzil, stands out in its beauty and clarity, which apparently indicates clear and orderly thinking, and in my opinion it would be worthwhile to be in contact with him as well—whether as “homework preparation” before going in to the rebbe, or for guidance on how to carry out and implement the rebbe’s instructions.
In paragraph 5, line 1:
… to cling to the fourth son, …
When Marcin Wodziński, head of the Department of Jewish Studies at the University of Wrocław in Poland, met Zvi Leshem, director of the Gershom Scholem Collection at the National Library, he asked him: “Tell me, by what does a Hasid choose his rebbe?” Faced with Leshem’s answer, “according to the root of his soul,” Wodziński cried out: “No, no—according to the railway line.”
Daniel Reiser, Zion – Quarterly for Research into the History of Israel, year 84 – 2019, p. 427 –
http://wordpress.redirectingat.com/?id=725X1342&isjs=1&jv=14.2.0-stackpath&sref=https%3A%2F%2Famhasefer.wordpress.com%2F2020%2F09%2F03%2F%25d7%2590%25d7%2598%25d7%259c%25d7%25a1-%25d7%2594%25d7%2597%25d7%25a1%25d7%2599%25d7%2593%25d7%2595%25d7%25aa%2F%23respond&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F15EejKdKwBXkBAmTDBv3eJbNuDrb8_bjw%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&xguid=&xs=1&xtz=-180&xuuid=5960c410ceb62710a42891300a143b53&xcust=8982&xjsf=other_click__auxclick%20%5B2%5D
And so said King David, peace be upon him: “Happy is the man whose strength is in You, in whose heart are highways” 🙂
With blessings,
The Bahrain Engine
To the Sadigura Hasid:
Can you explain what this thing is:
https://www.kikar.co.il/375799.html
What is your rebbe doing there with the four species?
To the Sadigura Hasid:
Can you explain to me what this thing is?
https://www.kikar.co.il/375799.html
“Off the top of my head, if I knew them, I’d say it seems to me that the fourth son is the one fit for leadership, and obviously he will bring great and wondrous salvations to you and to the entire generation” — very good, very good
Don’t the Sadigura rebbes pray in a side room behind closed doors?
Isn’t it the practice of the Sadigura rebbes to pray in a side room behind closed doors?
First of all, we’re talking about the one who calls himself the Sadigura Rebbe of London. As I said, I live in Israel and have nothing to do with him.
But I didn’t understand what I’m supposed to explain—what’s the problem?
So, Sadigura Hasid, what’s going on with you?
Who did you end up going with over the holidays?
If you ask me, it seems obvious that you should stick with the Rebbe, may he live long, who lives in Bnei Brak. And if that’s not obvious to you, apparently you’re not burning enough…
To the insider — greetings,
Over the holidays we followed the instruction of the Rebbe of Balfour, who expounded: “Do not read it as Sadigura, but rather ‘close, Jew!’” and in accordance with the words of Rabbi Eliezer: “I praise the lazy people who do not leave their homes on the festival.”
With blessings,
Roni, man of Gamzu, and Na Nach Nachma Nachman of Mamlabes, Projector of the Coronavirus
I didn’t know Roni Gamzu had also become a Sadigura Hasid…
Everything is for the good except Gamzu
A Hasid asks his rabbi about what to do in life at the most important crossroads—such as surgeries, matchmaking, business, etc.—so when it comes to explaining which of his sons is capable and fit to stand in his place and fill it, he doesn’t know? Obviously a Hasid does his rabbi’s will out of faith that it’s what’s best for him.
“I’ll add a joke I just heard from Droyanov”
It seems our rabbi’s head is in the heavens if he just now heard a joke from Droyanov, who has already been dead for eighty years…
I heard his lips moving in the grave.
By the way, are you sure this comment belongs here? Not on WhatsApp?
Read it as: a joke from Droyanov that I just heard.
That Droyanov line is strong. I’ll add a joke I heard ages ago. Rabbi Yisrael Yaakov Fischer was riding in a taxi and suddenly the driver stopped.
– What happened?
– Red light, it’ll change in a second.
– (Rabbi Fischer narrowed his eyes, stared for a long time, and said:) That, that is not red. Drive.