Q&A: Is It Appropriate to Equate in Law a Police Officer Who Hits a Citizen with a Citizen Who Hits a Police Officer
Is It Appropriate to Equate in Law a Police Officer Who Hits a Citizen with a Citizen Who Hits a Police Officer
Question
With God's help,
Hello Rabbi,
Lately, on the Haredi websites, a great many videos have been published morning and night (sometimes more than a few videos a day) in which it seems that discretion is not exactly the police officers' strong point, and many times it is clearly seen that they use unreasonable physical force in carrying out their work against members of our community, and also many times they do all kinds of things with no legal justification at all.
So I wanted to ask: does the Rabbi think it is proper to equate in law a citizen who hits a police officer, for which he can sit in prison for a long period, with a law dealing with a police officer who hits a citizen for no reason? (Or to calculate the gap between what is appropriate and what is actually done, and assess and punish him accordingly.)
For example, a few months ago it was published on Kikar HaShabbat that there was some Haredi man who sat in detention for 101 days based only on a policewoman's claim that he had spit on her, and only after a long period did they manage to obtain footage showing that no such thing happened… Of course, they did nothing to the police officers for giving false testimony on behalf of their colleague…
Or just a friend of mine, about two weeks ago, claims that he was violently dragged by several police officers who threatened him that if he kept filming them and didn't leave the area, they would take him to the patrol car and make trouble for him.
Granted, it does seem possible to understand a police officer who is at a demonstration and sometimes behaves irritably. On the other hand, there is no doubt that if they fully enforced the law against violent police officers as would be expected, there would be serious deterrence against an officer behaving that way.
In any case, I would be happy to hear the Rabbi's opinion on the matter. a0
P.S.
All this is of course assuming that the Police Internal Investigations Department would handle the cases, but as far as I remember people are currently saying that over 80% of the cases do not even reach an indictment…
Answer
I don't know how to give a general answer here. There are considerations in both directions. I don't think the question is police officer versus citizen, but rather each case on its own merits. There are grounds for leniency and for stringency. Not only is the police officer in a difficult situation, but it is more important to preserve the authority of the police officer than the rights of the citizen.
By the way, the Haredim remember to rebuke the police when it concerns them, but the police behave this way toward others as well.
Discussion on Answer
Rabbi decisor, in many threads you flash a different point of view. But your short writing style doesn't make it possible to understand what exactly the opinion says, what its reasons are, and how it deals with simple counterarguments. Maybe by any chance you have a blog? An active Facebook page?
Indeed, I expected you would raise that argument. I also think there is importance in preserving the authority of the police officer, but the big question is what happens when it seems that many police officers use that authority for their own personal benefit, knowing that almost certainly nothing will be done to them…
This is a kind of parallel to your novel interpretation regarding the law of a burglar who breaks in, etc., that if he thought to approach it from the Torah perspective of Sabbath observance, then the Torah shrugged him off.
Unfortunately, Rabbi, I also tend to think you are right that the Haredim remembered to rebuke only when it hurts them, but I do think there is greater alienation toward them.
I can tell a story that I myself experienced. Of course, you could argue this is the law of small numbers… but when not long ago I was walking around in Haredi dress and came across anti-Haredi graffiti in my city, I wanted to turn to the security officer so he would pass it on for treatment, and the moment they saw me, one of them stuck his head out of the patrol car and went "nya nya nya nya" at me with his face, like because I'm Haredi. Then they sped off up the road. I've never encountered such disgraceful treatment when I was dressed non-Haredi.
What's the connection? When comparing harm done to a police officer with harm done to a citizen, the distinction I wrote is very relevant. Your remarks are not connected to the discussion, even if they are correct, because they do not show that there is an equivalence between the two. I did not write that there is no room to criticize police officers and their behavior.
As for the discriminatory treatment you described, you yourself mentioned the law of small numbers. It has no significance whatsoever. And of course, when the conduct of the Haredim is in the background, it is even more understandable (for example, how many Haredim are there in the police force?).
Indeed, it is clear that this is not connected, but because of this lack of symmetry an extremely distorted reality is created… so even if at the outset it is very justified, when the police officers exploit this for their own benefit, would it not be proper to return to the original situation of equalizing the law between citizen and police officer, whether more leniently or more stringently? Precisely because that indirect reason gives them an advantage.
By the way, regarding the laws of the Sabbath, I'm sure you heard the story about Mandelblit and the Sabbath 🙂 here's an example of something that seems absolutely outrageous, but of course they won't do anything to him.
I think this coming Sabbath it would be fitting for the neighbors to bless him with "He Who exacted punishment".
I haven't heard.
https://rotter.net/forum/scoops1/662664.shtml
Contrary to what we think, the purpose of the police officer is not to protect the citizen but the regime.
And we have a tradition that might makes right.