Q&A: 5 Points About the Podcast with Daniel Doshi
5 Points About the Podcast with Daniel Doshi
Question
During the podcast, 5 points became clearer to me that bother me about your position.
A. Why, in your view, is external/psychological influence on our perceptions and opinions irrelevant to a discussion with a person? In many cases there are two persuasive arguments, each with a certain truth to it, and in the end you choose a particular side based on your inclination and your intuition. Sometimes this already happens at the stage of the premise of the argument, which is entirely based on a subjective feeling. And so the debate shifts from “is the claim true or not” to “do you really hold this opinion, or are you influenced, in which case there’s no point in discussing it with you.” Sometimes these are just speculations, but if there is a clear indication that the person is influenced (for example, someone who has never changed his positions since the day he was born and will always justify the opinions of the society he lives in), that should definitely carry weight in the discussion. We’re not always analyzing issues in the abstract; sometimes we’re discussing what our opponent’s real outlook actually is.
B. Why do you always remove responsibility from leaders and influential figures? In the current podcast you mainly argued that the responsibility lies with the individual person, but in other cases too you removed responsibility from the influencing side. For example, in the issue of surrogacy and Merav Michaeli. Many people were angry at her because while she fiercely opposed surrogacy procedures and caused many parents to live with infertility, she herself underwent such a procedure. You argued, on the other hand, that whoever chose not to have children did so of their own accord, and that Michaeli had no hand in the matter. I wonder whether consulting a doctor of physics, a rabbi, or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is not, in essence, similar to consulting a physician, and perhaps even more serious than that. People seek advice because they think they are consulting an educated, learned person who has read, thought, and delved into the issue far more than they have, and therefore if that person presents an opinion they are uncertain about, or even one they do not themselves agree with, they sometimes subordinate their decision to that opinion, since it supposedly comes from someone whose understanding surpasses their own. If so, why remove responsibility from that authority?
C. You said that you think religious experiences are, for the most part, illusions. The question is: in order to reject something, isn’t it advisable and necessary to experience it first? We’re talking here about experiences on many levels, of millions of people around the world. How can one make such a determination? After all, for the same reason you argue that one cannot reject the experience the Jewish people had at Mount Sinai, because we ourselves did not experience it.
D. Regarding Asperger’s: I didn’t understand whether you said it sarcastically. Do you really think the ideal human being is a robot? A human being is a social creature, one who affects others and connects. As far as I’m concerned, if someone comes to a meeting exactly at 7:00 but leaves at 7:30 while we’re in the middle of an important conversation, just because we agreed it would last exactly half an hour, then he is a defective person. As a robot he is perfect; as a human being he has a very serious bug. Maybe this explains the previous 3 sections. In your eyes, emotions are a bug, religious experiences are an illusion, external influences on discussions are irrelevant, and our decisions are always rational and there is no responsibility for an outside authority figure—because we are basically robots, and if we don’t behave like robots it’s because we are lacking, but that lack should not be taken into account in discussions or in how we conduct our lives. But I think (and it seems to me like a reasonable thing to think) that emotions are an important tool that drives the world, and they are the human being. They are not secondary and not a deficiency in a person. And if, for example, we do not develop our emotional system and do not know how to read other people’s emotions correctly, then we also won’t be able to influence others (even though that is what reason says to do), so by definition that would not be the right thing.
E. A topic that has been discussed to death: miracles. You said everything is statistics. So I just wanted to note that, speaking of statistics, read what intelligence people said about the night of the drones from Iran: Omer Ellali, a strategic intelligence researcher, formerly an intelligence researcher in Military Intelligence and in the Prime Minister’s Office, in interviews on Channel TOV and on the Epoch website:
“There was an unprecedented success here of the aerial defense systems. We’re talking about between 85% and 95% success rates. On the global level there is no other system like this, that reaches an 85% interception success rate. Parallel estimates for similar systems in the world speak of a 20% interception success rate. That’s the gap.”
Development of the Arrow missile system began in 1990, and since then only two ballistic missile interceptions have been made with it, both in the current war. That means that the first time the system went onto the field and dealt with a real threat from the moment it was developed was on Saturday night. According to him, “It’s like someone who hasn’t played basketball for 20 years going up to a game against Michael Jordan and beating him 20-0.”
“I’m a software engineer, and I know what it means to develop something and move it from the development environment to the production environment. There’s no way you put something this significant into production, after so many years of development, without bugs. And here not only were there no bugs, but the results were unprecedented in world history. So a religious person will say this was a miracle, and a non-religious person will say this is science fiction, but it’s something that lies between those two extremes,” said Ellali.
These remarks join statements published in the name of Dr. Mordechai Avitbul, an electro-optics engineer and doctor of physics, who claimed that this was a more obvious miracle than the War of Independence and the Six-Day War: “The great number of events that had to be handled, when each missile or drone is handled independently, multiplies the chance of error. Even with all the high technologies, the expectation was that the defense of the skies of the State of Israel would be breached. What happened was that everyone, absolutely everyone—the pilots, the system operators, and the technology operators—acted as one person at one moment in complete unity. If that is not a divine act, then I no longer know what a miracle is.”
Answer
A. Intuition is not psychology but a cognitive tool. I’ve written about this a lot (just today I was asked about it in responsa). Obviously, if you are dealing with the question—usually with yourself—of whether it is worth having the discussion, then there is value in examining whether the person opposite you is captive to something or not. But as for the discussion itself, that is irrelevant.
B. I didn’t understand the question. The fact that people seek advice is their right. But the decision is theirs, and therefore the responsibility for it is also theirs. And even if they decide to subordinate their opinion to his, that too is their decision and they are responsible for it. Of course there is a difference between factual-scientific-professional consultation and value-based consultation. An expert has professional responsibility, including in Jewish law (like the responsibility of a money-changer). A value-based adviser—absolutely not.
C. I didn’t determine that. I said that this is my impression. To my understanding that is true in most cases. Maybe there are cases where it isn’t, and maybe none of them are. That is my opinion. By the way, I did not deny the existence of the experiences, but rather their truth-value and the value they have in and of themselves. As for that, there is no need to experience it yourself.
D. Regarding Asperger’s, I definitely wasn’t joking. What distinguishes a human being from a robot is choice, not psychological mannerisms. Those mannerisms do distinguish him, but unfortunately so. If you set a meeting for a limited time and it turns out there is an important topic you didn’t cover, then someone with Asperger’s would also agree to extend it—but with reasons, not just because you happen to feel like it one way or the other. By contrast, people sometimes are simply imprecise and simply tend away from the truth. That is his advantage. Of course, this is said half-jokingly, because human beings are human beings and they have psychology. But the point is that I do not see this as an advantage but as a deficiency. But that is of course a fact, whether people like it or not.
E. Well, this goes back to things that have already been discussed to death. I disagree. I don’t even agree with the data, because I showed here that they were presented tendentiously. The interception rates were lower. But not every deviation from a statistical expectation is a miracle. It could also be a successful development. It could be a deviation that is itself part of the statistics (think of thousands of attacks in which interceptions take place and produce different results. Is it not possible that in one of them we would get results like these?) In my view, someone who claims that a miracle occurred bears the burden of proof. Meeting that burden is almost impossible. One should remember that engineers are very far from understanding miracles, and even in statistics they are not always all that strong. It is a very confusing field. And certainly when they already believe in divine assistance, they have a tendency to see and present things that way. So I’m not overly impressed by these statements. I’ll only remind you that on 10/7 a miracle also happened to us, just an opposite miracle—for the worse. So in the meantime, have we repented? I’m not buying it.
Discussion on Answer
B. You’re mixing levels. There can be criticism of Merav Michaeli that she is hypocritical, or inconsistent, or not straightforward. That has nothing to do with the question of her responsibility for other people’s decisions. They, and only they, are responsible for that.
C. That is not an experience but cognition/an encounter. You’re mixing things up again. When people talk about religious experiences, they do not mean encounters. As for encounters, one can believe they happened or not, but those are not experiences. True, there are people who assign cognitive value to an experience, but that is on their own responsibility. The fact that I feel elevated does not mean that the Holy One, blessed be He, or the angel Gabriel entered into me, and I also do not see that as a state of value (is there even such a thing as a state of value?). When I speak with you, my understanding of your words is a mental state, but that is not what I call an experience.
E. I didn’t understand. What deviation exactly happens again and again and again throughout all the generations? Interception percentages? The saving of Jews from troubles? By the way, none of my assertions is certain, including the assertion that there are no miracles. That is true even when I don’t write it explicitly, but certainly regarding miracles, where I wrote it explicitly.
B. Value-based consultation also contains professional understanding, familiarity with facts, and analytical ability that are not necessarily in my toolbox when I come to make a decision. Clearly the primary responsibility is mine, but how can one completely erase the responsibility of the person who helped me arrive at that decision? In addition, it’s important to emphasize that the criticism is about hypocrisy (as in Michaeli’s case). It’s not that the adviser said what he understood and from that point on has no responsibility; rather, in many cases he is lying or not being honest with himself regarding his advice, and therefore there is plenty of room for criticism on that.
C. With the giving of the Torah, you did give their experience value. You said that the children of Israel experienced it as something real, and we have no tools to disagree with them because we did not experience that experience itself. That also makes sense: to judge the true value of an experience, you first need to experience it yourself. Why not, really?
E. Regarding “It could be a deviation that is itself part of the statistics”: when such a deviation happens again and again and again over generations, you can see a guiding hand here. Maybe not, but it is very reasonable to think so. That certainly ought to somewhat undermine the categorical assertion that there are definitely no miracles, and to make one back away from saying that prayer for miracles is a vain prayer and the like.