Q&A: Question About the Parameters of Modest Dress for a Woman
Question About the Parameters of Modest Dress for a Woman
Question
I still don’t completely understand, so I’ll give an example: I checked with several rabbis, among them a Religious Zionist rabbi who was described to me as knowledgeable in the laws of modesty (and I wanted a religious rabbi in order to avoid the stringencies of the Haredim), and I asked about how a woman should be covered in the neck area. The answer from all of them, without exception, was that the hollow at the base of the throat must be covered, and on the sides from the point where the slope of the shoulders begins. I think my wife doesn’t really manage to be careful about this, for the simple reason that every blouse stretches out after being worn a few times, and if you don’t fasten it properly in the back with a safety pin then it doesn’t sit as it should. In practice, I personally think it’s not such a big deal as long as there isn’t a neckline opening in front, but I haven’t found any rabbi who permits this—do you think I can really tell my wife with a clear conscience to go dressed that way? Also, I checked, and according to the basic law a woman, according to the Mishnah Berurah, does not need to wear stockings at all—but (and this is already more of a worldview question), doesn’t the very fact that I am a kollel student and also give sermons in synagogues "obligate" me and my wife to conduct ourselves beyond the letter of the law? (In practice, I told my wife that if she wants she can go without stockings, but I’m not completely at peace with it.)
Answer
From my perspective, Jewish law is not determined by rabbis. Every rabbi has a position, and that is of course his right. But the fact that there is a consensus among the rabbis you asked does not mean that this is the Jewish law. There are no rigid rules here, and it depends on the particular case and place. And of course, within a more conservative society, the laws of modesty really are stricter (because in such a society there are more areas of the body that are considered covered). Stockings are of course not Jewish law in any sense whatsoever. And the fact that you give sermons does not obligate your wife in anything. Certainly if it is not her own decision. As for you yourself, I am always torn about this. On the one hand, it is not advisable to confuse the public and lose influence over them. On the other hand, surrendering to incorrect norms causes a drift toward too high and unnecessary a common denominator, and it is a shame to cooperate with that.
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Questioner (another one):
Would it be permitted for a woman to wear pants? And what is the law regarding a shirt with sleeves shorter than the elbow (not sleeveless)?
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Rabbi:
In the question of pants, two issues are involved: modesty and men’s garb. It is preferable to wear women’s pants so that there is no issue of men’s garb, but it seems to me that even unisex should not be forbidden. Those too are women’s pants. If there are pants that are distinctly men’s pants, they should not be worn. From the standpoint of modesty, I do not see any principled problem with wearing modest pants. There are many skirts that are far less modest than pants. In general, it is difficult to set hard rules of forbidden and permitted in these matters.
As for a shirt, the question of the boundary arises. Here too it depends on circumstances and context, and therefore again it is hard for me to determine forbidden or permitted in this matter.
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Questioner:
I read opinions of other halakhic decisors who say that the problem with pants is that they do not obscure the crotch area (unlike a skirt). Is there reason to be concerned about that (even with wide pants—not tight)? Or in your view is there no difference between women’s pants and a skirt?
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Rabbi:
There is no law in Jewish law requiring obscuring. Everything depends on whether it is modest or not. Very tight seems to me immodest, but I do not feel like an expert in modesty. In that, everyone understands as much as I do.