Q&A: Hello Rabbi Michi, a mixed beach?
Hello Rabbi Michi, a mixed beach?
Question
Hello Rabbi Michi,
There is a phenomenon that began as something negligible and has expanded to monstrous proportions: swimming at mixed beaches, by both religious women and religious men, to whom this seems completely permitted. In the Har Nof neighborhood, this has become almost the norm among many Haredi families (my opinion regarding Haredism is well known).
How does the Rabbi relate to this phenomenon?
With blessings, B
Answer
I’m not familiar with it. It isn’t appropriate, but there is room to judge favorably. See my columns on watching immodest movies.
Discussion on Answer
That is the conclusion. Decide according to the situation.
That is the conclusion regarding men. What about women who go in swimsuits in front of men?
Same thing. A man who doesn’t want to look shouldn’t look.
Sorry to be a pest, but why regarding a woman in a swimsuit at the beach is it “a man who doesn’t want to look shouldn’t look,” whereas at a bank branch the woman must be careful about modesty, and we do not say “a man who doesn’t want to look shouldn’t look”?
It depends on the circumstances (whether this is the normal way, and to what extent there is another way available). In a bank, that is not the normal way.
According to the Rabbi’s view, is there also no advantage to a “modest swimsuit” for women?
Modesty always has an advantage, but modesty is not connected to “do not place a stumbling block” for men; rather, it has intrinsic value.
Recently I realized that part of what bothers me at a mixed beach is not necessarily the exposed women, but the fact that I am exposed and scantily clad in front of them. There is something immodest about exposed physicality, male as well as female. At separate beaches it bothers me less, and at a mixed beach you can simply remain clothed.
And as the well-known poet said, “You start with the internet and afterward you listen to the radio.”
In my opinion this is not a real question, but a nasty attempt to create a norm through questions of this kind, or to show how hypocritical Haredim are.
“Regarding a mixed beach, if there is no separate beach with comparable accessibility, perhaps there is room to permit it there as well. I hadn’t thought about it. But there I’m going to the sea, and the women are a side issue. With mixed dancing it’s harder, since the essence of the dancing is that it is dancing with women. If there is someone who loves to dance and has no similarly accessible option and therefore needs mixed dancing, that requires discussion.”
Did the Rabbi mean the above? There is much more here than merely judging favorably. What did the Rabbi mean by “I hadn’t thought about it”? What is the conclusion after the Rabbi did think about it?