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Q&A: Am I doing something wrong by remaining Haredi, with all the rules, when I really don’t identify at all (almost) with this community’s worldview?

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Originally published:
This is an English translation (via GPT-5.4). Read the original Hebrew version.

Am I doing something wrong by remaining Haredi, with all the rules, when I really don’t identify at all (almost) with this community’s worldview?

Question

Answer

You are doing something wrong by being Haredi. But if you don’t understand that, and you identify with Haredi ideology, then you’re coerced by circumstance (and not very wise). And if you are aware of it, then maybe you’re wiser, but you aren’t coerced.

Discussion on Answer

Yankele (2023-03-22)

Could you explain why it’s that bad, please?

Michi (2023-03-22)

In many ways. It’s a primitive outlook. Religiously incorrect. A parasitic and non-productive society. Lacking autonomy. A group that harasses its own members as well as society as a whole. The status of women is horrific (and of course with their full consent, because they’re forbidden to study, so they don’t know that their status is not required by Jewish law and the Torah). Closed media and silencing dissent. Control by self-interested political fixers. No treatment of internal problems, and certainly no partnership in dealing with external ones. And so on. Some of the problems exist in other groups too, but the overall package and the intensity are unique to the Haredim.

Yam (2023-03-22)

Do you maybe have a realistic alternative for me on the practical level?
Because talk isn’t worth all that much if it doesn’t stand up to reality, and since we live here in this world and not in the world of ideals, and I believe God placed me where I can be a good person and not a bad one, it follows that there should be an option to live a life of Judaism in a good way that won’t undermine values for me like observing the commandments at a high level (which you hardly find in other communities except maybe in isolated individuals), genuine fear of Heaven, and valuing Torah study and preserving tradition in all its branches.

I was Haredi a decade ago, took my family to the Religious Zionist world, and thank the Holy One, blessed be He, every day, every hour (2023-03-22)

Seems to me that a Torah-oriented Religious Zionist lifestyle answers most of the values you mentioned, and is also a partner in building the nation materially and spiritually—a reasonable combination.

A.Y.A. (2023-03-22)

To the confused Haredi,
I’d recommend you read a bit on this site—not because Rabbi Michi is necessarily right [maybe yes and maybe no, everyone according to his own understanding] but more so that you’ll understand how brainwashed you are. Your last question itself proves that you don’t grasp how delusional you are, as though the Haredi public is perfect in terms of commandment observance [every public picks its own sins]. Think about it carefully.

Michi (2023-03-22)

I don’t know what you mean by an alternative. The question is what your views are, what your inclinations are, and what your constraints are. It’s impossible to answer a question like that. You have to decide your path for yourself, not anyone else.

B (2023-03-23)

It’s worth adding to the horror the messianic Hardal people.
The status of women isn’t glorious, most of them work in less productive jobs, they’re primitive, most of them do shortened military service (if at all), but unlike the Haredim, the realpolitik there is grounded in dangerous positions at the international political level (it’s enough to look at the levels of madness in recent days among types like Smotrich, Strock, and Ben Gvir).
Together with the Haredim and the demographic growth, I foresee a glorious future for us.

Yosef (2023-03-23)

Yankele, honestly this is something you need to sit with yourself and think about a bit: is it really okay the way the Haredim behave in these well-known matters—opposition to education, opposition to military service (others will risk themselves and they won’t), dumping the burden on the public, and not earning a living like any decent person.
Whenever I think about this by myself, I sort of say: how can anyone even think for a moment that this is okay? It’s directly calling evil good and good evil.

Yankele (2023-03-24)

But let’s be honest with ourselves: someone who goes outside
1. is exposed to some very serious harms (whether in the educational system, or in the modesty system, for anyone who understands what I’m talking about—like creatures of Yair Cherki’s kind who are capable of publicly demonstrating something abominable with no shame at all, because the public keeps tolerating it, and tolerating it, and more and more…)
2. risks the future course of the children’s lives, since they’ll go through a difficult change and it may destroy much of what was built into them
3. all the media in all those communities is really not something anyone should be happy with (if we’re being real—with the Haredim there’s at least a bit to lean on in that these things happen with a delay of 5 or 10 years compared to others)
4. values like Torah and commandment observance more or less go into the trash—if not total ruin, then at least in the children, and certainly in most of the grandchildren (except for one or two who get burned back in by outside people)
5. if military service can be deferred here for reason X, then if I find myself preserving certain values and for that I need to distance myself from places that teach people to violate severe prohibitions without a shred of conscience, then it is appropriate to abstain from the army in all its branches
6. the life of mediocrity as an ideal among the Religious Zionists of all kinds does not fit the lifestyle of a Jew who truly wants the truth
7. it’s unpleasant to live near people who eat non-kosher food, have relations while the woman is a niddah, and publicly desecrate the Sabbath (I’m not referring specifically to Religious Zionists, although in certain strata that’s what happens in secret), when you want to give your children an example of exaltation and not earthiness
It’s hard to find a normal place—maybe abroad.

Yedidya (2023-03-26)

“You are doing something wrong by being Haredi” — wow, how much hatred in so few words!!
You dismiss and label an entire society in such a sweeping and generalizing way.
Are they really that bad??
A whole society of people that is made up, like any society, of better and less good people and phenomena—and you didn’t find a single good thing in them??
So much so that a person’s very belonging to the sector is, in your eyes, something invalid??
What about all the charitable enterprises and free-loan funds, helping others, and communal life? People who make do with little and see Torah study as an ideal that shapes an entire life???
I’ll help you find one good thing. This past Thursday, for example, when in Bnei Brak they organized a demonstration whose entire purpose was to antagonize and provoke the Haredim, they welcomed the demonstrators with singing and dancing and handed out cholent. Didn’t you think to mention that? Unlike you (!), they apparently believe in baseless love.
I have a feeling you’ll say: yes, that’s true, but… and find a way to diminish it—but no public or sector is perfect, and shortcomings can be found in every group.
I have a feeling you wouldn’t write like this about other sectors in the country. If I didn’t know who wrote this, I would think this was an antisemitic platform or a stage for professional haters of religious people.
Usually I regard you as a serious person with a well-formed and reasoned worldview. Too bad.

Michi (2023-03-26)

Classic Haredi apologetics. When I criticize Haredi society, that doesn’t mean all Haredim are bad people on the personal level. The conduct and the society are bad.
I would write this way about any sector that, in my opinion, deserves it. So your feelings aren’t really important in this matter.
As for Thursday’s demonstration, that is a wonderful example of Haredi demagoguery. They didn’t come for provocation, but to protest—quite justifiably—the disgraceful Haredi conduct (exactly what I described above). And the fact that the Haredim came out to them with bread and salt is just propaganda. On the contrary, let them retract even one wrong out of the many they commit, and then maybe I’ll agree that there was something sincere and genuine here.

Yehuda (2023-03-27)

That’s not true.

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